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Published - Sunday, May 18, 2008

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La Crosse's last best hope: Former oil tank farm a developer's dream


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Land grabs and legal entanglements have choked off grand plans for the 60 acres of blighted waterfront just north of downtown La Crosse.

Redeveloping this derelict real estate has, for more than two decades, been an elusive dream.
An aerial view of the former Mobil Oil site on Copeland Ave. The new Three Rivers Plaza with Festival Foods is in the upper right. Erik Daily

And a lopsided sense of urgency pits city officials against business leaders, who say that each year the land remains vacant represents another wasted opportunity.

A former 26-acre oil tank farm is billed as the landlocked city’s last, best hope for large-scale development.

“Because of its size and location, it’s going to control the ... destiny of La Crosse,” said Bud Miyamoto, executive director of Downtown Mainstreet Inc.

“But here we are, still to this day, with a large area of economic blight in the heart of the city.”

The City Vision 2020 plan calls the Mobil Oil property an immediate priority, “a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create an entire new and comprehensively planned neighborhood within walking distance from downtown.”

For a virtual tour of the site, click here: http://www.lacrossenet.com/virtual/rivervalley/MobileOilSite/Mobile_Oil_Site_View_1.htm

The new Three Rivers Plaza on the opposite side of Copeland Avenue provides a glimpse of what might be possible on the waterfront land to the west — $100 million in business, residential, festival and park space.

The hurdles are acute — though not insurmountable — given the lingering contamination and acquisition pains.

The Patros steel estate defiantly holds onto the last privately owned parcels, and the city’s attention is turned to a rival site.

“The city wants to control everything it can get its hands on,” said Willy Patros. “But you cannot just come in and tell a man what he can do with his property.”

Seventy years ago, the city sold off the land to Wadhams Oil and Grease Co. with the condition it fill in the wetlands where the Mississippi, La Crosse and Black rivers meet.

It has taken a decade to move out ExxonMobil Oil Corp. and reclaim the land. Community leaders don’t want another 10 years to pass before the first shovel is in the ground.

After years of steady interest from developers, Miyamoto fears the site’s potential may fall victim to a sluggish economy and tightened bank loans.

“I’m worried that 10 years from now we’re going to be having this same conversation,” said Miyamoto.

Creating customers

Three Rivers developer Paul Borsheim said when his team picked a site for that project and recruited tenants, the timing for Mobil Oil redevelopment was a real consideration.

“When we were starting Three Rivers 2½ years ago, the intent from the city was that in about a year to two years things would start moving,” Borsheim said. “It was critical for some of the tenants that there would be more development in this area and not just on one side of the road.”

Borsheim’s North Side Development is pushing on with a 92-room extended stay hotel just north of Three Rivers. Two sites beyond that wait in the wings.

“These people made this investment believing something would happen across the street to enhance their investment,” Miyamoto said.

More people and rooftops create a market for the existing and future retail and service ventures.

It can’t happen soon enough, said Dave Skogen, owner of the Festival Foods store anchoring the mixed-use Three Rivers Plaza.

“When you talk about potential retail, it’s another reason to come to that area of La Crosse to shop. We become their grocery store,” he said. “But it’s more than just the potential business for us. It’s the cosmetic appearance of the gateway to La Crosse."

The former tank farm truly is a detraction and eyesore for the 30,000 to 35,000 people who traverse Copeland Avenue daily, Borsheim said.

‘What are we waiting for?’

There’s no question of need and no question of outside interest.

“Yet here is 2008, and nothing’s happened,” said Miyamoto. “What are we waiting for?”

An oversize City Vision 2020 map adorns a wall in Miyamoto’s downtown office, and a dozen colorful site plans are floating around the planning department at City Hall.

But as Miyamoto passionately promotes the former Mobil Oil site’s potential, City Planning Director Larry Kirch puts the final touches on a term agreement for the former Holiday Inn site on Barron Island.

The Redevelopment Authority has said the Park Plaza site is its first priority, Kirch said.

“It’s the gateway from Minnesota and a highly visible site right on the water,” he said. “We can’t do two $90 million projects at the same time. We need to pick one and go with it. I understand people are chomping at the bit to see something happen there, but Mobil Oil’s not going anywhere.”

But the on-again, off-again Barron Island waterfront development, flanked by La Crosse and La Crescent, Minn., doesn’t seem to have much life in it.

“That one seems to get hot and cold, so I guess I’m not sure why the city couldn’t work on both of these,” said Borsheim.

The planning department essentially is just four people, said Mayor Mark Johnsrud, noting the county is eager to recoup its out-of-pocket costs for buying and cleaning up Park Plaza.

“If we had the entire island under our control, we would be able to market it,” he said, but local developer Jay Hoeschler still owns a key strip of waterfront.

If that’s the case, the city’s energy is misplaced, said Miyamoto.

“Yeah, Park Plaza is a dynamite place, but you can’t tell me that can even compare to potential for economic impact of Mobil Oil,” he said.

The Patros property

“There’s a lot of pressure to do something, to move forward,” Kirch said. “But at the same time, I don’t think it should be piecemeal.”

The 26-acre former bulk oil terminal represents less than half the future project scope that encompasses a 8.3-acre former cement plant, 12 acres from Patros Steel Supply and 15 acres of city-owned wetlands.

La Crosse amicably acquired Western Wisconsin Ready-mix land for about $25,000. The Patros property, meanwhile, has been at the center of a quarter century-long battle between the Patros estate and City Hall.

“Nothing can happen until we acquire Patros,” said Kirch.

Willy Patros, one of five heirs, accuses the city of scaring off other developers and trying to buy the property on the cheap.

“They’ve just done everything in their power to discourage people with the wherewithal to develop that property and create tax base,” he said.

Patros said he’d expect the city to match offers from private developers — most recently $5 million.

“But the city doesn’t have any money. That’s why they want to condemn it,” he said.

“Why should they take my property and buy it at a reduced price? They’ve already devalued the property by doing everything they can to keep me from trying to do something down there,” he added.

Kirch said the estate could reap the tax advantages of a friendly condemnation. The city will proceed along those lines, he said, while trying to avoid court by negotiating a purchase price with the family’s legal counsel.

The Patroses’ attorney provided a number to jump-start negotiations, Kirch said, and the city has made a tentative counteroffer.

Patros denies his camp ever made the city an offer.

The city only has about $400,000 on hand, Kirch said, and the balance would be incorporated into a tax increment finance district.

The base value of the TIF district likely will be just a few million dollars, Kirch said, arguing there’s not much value in the land.

City planners contend flood plain and floodway restrictions dictate just three of the 12 acres can be developed.

“The property’s not worth $10 million,” said Patros, “but it’s worth a lot more than the city’s willing to pay for it.”

He said the city appraised his 11 acres plus 2,200 feet of shoreline for about $700,000.

“One time (Larry Kirch) told me that my property was only worth $220,000. That was seven or eight years ago. I hung up on him. That was probably the last time I spoke to him at any length,” Patros said.

The co-owner of Patros Steel Supply said the land would have long been developed if not for City Hall’s greed.

“They’ve tried to say that it’s blighted property,” Patros said. “But they’ve turned it into blighted property by not letting us develop it.”

The city doesn’t want private sector control over the waterfront, Johnsrud said.

“The only way we’re going to move forward is to acquire the Patros property and start a remediation plan,” the mayor said.

Several visions for the site

The Tribune asked several community and business leaders — all champions in some way or another of the waterfront property known as the Mobil Oil site — what is possible, and what is likely on this piece of land roughly one-third the size of downtown La Crosse. Here’s what they said:

Larry Kirch

Director of Planning, city of La Crosse

‘Public input’

The city planner endorses an aggressive quest for public input.

“I think the community should have a say-so, because it’s their money that’s been used to buy it,” said Larry Kirch.

The project should fit with the historic downtown without competing with it as a retail and office park, he noted.

Of existing designs, Kirch prefers the City Vision 2020 plan that calls for a business park, single-family neighborhood and apartments and condominiums overlooking a park setting.

Others call for a series of baseball diamonds and a swimming pool.

The strip along Copeland Avenue would be designated for commercial development as a buffer from the busy causeway, Kirch said.

Several projects introduced by private developers were out of step with the site limitations and community vision, he said.

“The die is cast on a lot of that land because of the flood plain and wetland status,” he said. Just 32 of the almost 60 acres can reasonably be expected to be developed.

Twin towers, a casino and a mini-mall were “nice ideas,” he said, but ultimately rejected.

“Let’s come up with a plan that everybody can live with, and then shop that out to developers as opposed to letting developers say what they want to do,” he said.

Paul Borsheim

Developer, Three Rivers Plaza

‘Setting the bar’

Paul Borsheim pumped millions into developing the east side of Copeland Avenue.

“We wanted to set the bar for the Mobil site — the architecture and urban design standards that we’re incorporating here,” Borsheim said.

The North Side Development builder said he has seen more than half a dozen sketches for the property, mixed-use being the presiding theme.

While he doesn’t consider single-family homes the best use for the property, the land may be prime for senior citizen housing as well as other high-density uses.

Borsheim said offices, restaurants and a hotel all would fit with the urban image, despite his own plans for a 92-room extended stay hotel across Copeland Avenue.

“One thing I don’t want to see there is taking businesses from other parts of town and relocating them there,” he said.

The public shoreline demands a marina, Borsheim said, but he has reservations about creating new festival grounds.

“Wherever you put them, they need to get enough use,” he said. “And the other issue would be parking. If you’re going to put festival grounds next to residential development, it’s going to be difficult to sell condos.”

Borsheim appreciates the need to get public input on the future of the key site, but finding a balance between that and what makes business sense is going to be a challenge.

“If it doesn’t make sense business-wise, no one’s going to do that development,” he said.

Mark Johnsrud

La Crosse MAYOR

‘Patience’

Mayor Mark Johnsrud is confident in 10 years the site will show signs of progress.

It’s not going to happen all at once, he cautioned. The 60-acre development likely will be built out in phases, starting with the Copeland Avenue commercial corridor.

“In this economic climate, it’s going to be hard to get several multi-million-dollar buildings built at one time,” he said.

The groundbreaking phase still is years away, Johnsrud said.

Though the city’s condemnation of the ExxonMobil Oil Corp. property was upheld in a series of lawsuits, Johnsrud said Exxon vowed to drag its feet if the city pursues anything other than industrial uses to limit its own liability.

“They’re kind of holding that over our head,” he said.

Once cleared, an extensive city park would anchor the housing, office and retail space.

He looks forward to the riverwalk connecting the site with Riverside Park.

And he said he expects high demand for the office space, with park and river views.

“I don’t think we should be in a rush,” Johnsrud said. “For the highest and best use, patience is the best thing.”

Dave Clements

Executive director, La Crosse Area Convention and Visitors Bureau

‘Public and private’

Dave Clements said he doesn’t know whether some of his ideas make financial or logistical sense.

But finances aside, the tourism chief expects a healthy balance of public and private uses.

“I think the waterfront land needs to be public land. The shoreline needs to belong to the public,” he said.

Like most, Clements wants public boat docks and an extension of the riverwalk from Riverside Park.

Recognizing the possible environmental limitations, he suggested dredging out some of the wetlands for a recreational lake for fishing and kayaking.

Festival grounds also would tie in nicely with a public amphitheater, he said of his ideal vision. And the confluence of the three rivers would be the perfect place to house the city’s river histories under one roof. “We’ve got this great river history that is sort of scattered in little collections around town,” he said.

“But there’s got to be residential or commercial development that generates property taxes that, if nothing else, pays for the infrastructure that needs to go in there,” he said.

The tourism chief said realistically the property likely will be a combination of shopping, restaurants and owner-occupied, high-density housing.

“You don’t want to do single-family homes out there, from my perspective. It’s got to be a high level of density because there’s so little space, and you’ve got to take advantage of it. You’ve got to build up,” he said.

Bud Miyamoto

Executive director, Downtown Mainstreet Inc.

‘No. 1 project’

Just a week ago, Bud Miyamoto escorted an out-of-town developer through the Mobil Oil site.

“I spent three quarters of the day showing him property around the downtown. The last site I drove by was the Mobil Oil site, and he could not believe that this property was still sitting vacant,” said Miyamoto, executive director of Downtown Mainstreet Inc.

The man intends to come back to tour that locale with some colleagues, he said.

“There are developers that would go crazy over a 65-acre development at the river,” he said. “This is the No. 1-ranked project in my mind.”

It’s not just developers and taxpayers that have something to gain. Travelers using the Mississippi River complain there’s no place to dock, he said.

The property holds potential for the best of all worlds, he said. “We can have green space, we can have trails, we can have a boat harbor,” said Miyamoto.

But even more important, there’s a chance to create tax base through high-end condominiums, single-family dwellings and commercial development, he said.

“With $260 million invested in the downtown, it has become one of the most successful redevelopments of its kind,” Miyamoto said, and the waterfront property just north of downtown should be an extension of that effort.

MOBIL OIL PROPERTY HISTORY

1922 — A group of local investors start Perfect Oil, an affiliate of Milwaukee-based Wadhams Oil and Grease Corp.

1930 — Socony (Standard Oil Co. of New York) acquires Perfect Oil.

1938 — The La Crosse Common Council grants the oil company an option of 26 acres of city-owned land west of the causeway.

1966 — Socony Mobil Oil Co. becomes simply Mobil Oil Corp.

1995 — The land is decommissioned for oil storage and put up for sale.

1996 — Local developer Deak Swanson offers $1.4 million for the former oil tank farm for warehousing and manufacturing.

1997 — La Crosse Common Council votes to negotiate for purchase of Mobil Oil site, but the oil company rejects the city’s offer. Mobil Oil and Swanson agree on a purchase price. After city threatens condemnation, Swanson and city reach a compromise — which ultimately crumbles — to share the land.

1998 — Swanson abandons plans for site.

1999 — Low Motor Co. and McDowellBurchell Auto Supply Inc. offer to buy the front portion of the site from the city, if the city buys or condemns the land. Exxon and Mobil merge.

2000 — Ho Chunk Nation considers Mobil Oil site for a casino. La Crosse County residents voted overwhelmingly against allowing a casino.

2001 — Onalaska developer Jon Sopher proposes a $20 million office complex. La Crosse Redevelopment Authority sends ExxonMobil Oil Corp. a condemnation notice. Common Council approves

$1.1 million to purchase the site.

2002 — Port La Crosse LLC developer Tom Metcalfe approaches city about building a hotel, condominiums, restaurants and bar.

2003 — City initiates condemnation proceedings, which are challenged by ExxonMobil.

2004 — City wins suit over ExxonMobile, which wanted development restricted to industrial uses to limit its own liability.

2005 — City wins condemnation appeal.

La Crosse Public Library Archives and the La Crosse Tribune

Samantha Marcus can be reached at (608) 791-8220 or smarcus@lacrossetribune.com.
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The Moderate wrote on May 22, 2008 3:44 PM:

" It is the dull man who is always sure, and the sure man who is always dull.
"

Bumper wrote on May 22, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Sorry, 6:24am "

Bumper wrote on May 22, 2008 9:21 AM:

" Moderate- Please come back to earth. YOU are the one that brought the point up on May 19 6:40pm! "

The Moderate wrote on May 22, 2008 6:32 AM:

" I never did care who got paid what. As long as I wasn't a AP, why would I care.
I do find it amusing, however, that you believe everybody got paid what they thought they had coming. Apparently you have been drinking DS's "kool-aid". That flavor is called "smokescreen". "

Bumper wrote on May 21, 2008 7:18 PM:

" Good for Ms. Patros and her Editorial. It takes Kahungas to stand up to this Czar of Planning and his Deputy from the Jackson Street Gunshop. "

Bumper wrote on May 21, 2008 7:15 PM:

" When I used the phrase, "omniscient fella" I was referring to you. "

Bumper wrote on May 21, 2008 7:12 PM:

" NOW!!! You don't care who got paid what? You are great! You should work at the Tribune. Sorry, I did not understand the rest of your post. "

The Moderate wrote on May 21, 2008 6:41 AM:

" Actually, I couldn't care less about who got paid what. What I do find amusing, however, is that you consider him to be omniscient and at the same time you talk about staving off A/R's. He knew what he was doing because he had been subjected to this procedure by others. He was not "omniscient ". "

Bumper wrote on May 20, 2008 9:02 AM:

" Moderate- Then name me a person who got "stiffed". How about a corporation that is being forced to close up shop, for one reason or anther, and has many of it's assets involved in equipment, vehicles, and buildings, to offset those loans and materials supplier A/R? Needed to stem the tide for those seeking those funds before that Corp has the time to "liquidate" at an acceptable speed and get more for those assets at sale? In other words setting up a fence to temporarily stave off those wolves rather than take $.10 per dollar those assets. You see, you do not have all the bases covered for such an omniscient fella. "

The Moderate wrote on May 20, 2008 6:14 AM:

" You are extremely naive if you believe someone would "liquidate" a profit making corporation because some attorney or bean counter recommended it. However, when bank foreclosure is imminent, all lawyers and bean counters would indeed recommend that response. But imminent bank foreclosure would also mean that more $ are "owed out" versus any projected income. And by the time you take out the lawyers & bean counters fees plus pay the court appointed liquidator, the "hole" gets larger. As a result, unsecured creditors (which is everybody but the bank, the lawyer, the bean counter and the liquidator) are court ordered to accept less than a $ for every $ owed. Plus many unsecured creditors pay unanticipated legal fees on top of receiving less than a $ for a $.
Good luck on convincing any intelligent human being that everybody got paid.
"

The Moderate wrote on May 20, 2008 5:03 AM:

" There was no attempt to demonize anybody, but you said "For now, they have their hands busy beating up one of our citizens for his family land". It ceased being "his family's land" when he sued his sisters for control. You are correct, however when you say "he wants to control his property".
Just quit calling it the "Patros Family's land". "

30558 wrote on May 19, 2008 3:38 PM:

" Read my lips. Manufacturing not hotels. "

tax-me-more wrote on May 19, 2008 10:15 AM:

" June 23, 2005.

US SUPREME Court Rules:

[local governments may force property owners to sell out and make way for private economic development when officials decide it would benefit the public, even if the property is not blighted and the new project's success is not guaranteed.]

None of us OWN the property; the government can take it at will. Condemnation takes less that 90 days, after that the city owns it, and Patros would have to file suit. He couldn't stop the city, just MAYBE, and it's a BIG MAYBE get a little more money.

Take it via condemnation and get on with it. Government ALWAYS takes the little guys property right away, why not these fat cats? "

Bumper wrote on May 19, 2008 9:15 AM:

" Demonize Willy Patros? Why, because he wants to control his property? Well get right on the heirarchy bandwagon when it passes by as usual Moderate. Or will it be for the good of all, and the "Gateway" to the City. BS! A bunch of spoon-feeders, and manipulators. If only you all worked as hard promoting the City of Lacrosse at the VB. "

Bumper wrote on May 19, 2008 9:09 AM:

" When Deke ran for Mayor they resurrected all the pond scum. His arguments with the Council from 25 years ago, and his drinking. All of which were 20 plus years old. All with the help of the Tribune. Now that is scraping the bottom! Then more recently the liquidating/bankruptcy? Moderate, I would be more careful throwing our your charges/innuendos, and defending at the same time some of the very same families that might be subject to your charges. If you know what I mean? I simply stated that the appointment was purely political and there were far more experienced candidates, in my opinion. I am still waiting for any creative promotion from the VB. "

Bumper wrote on May 19, 2008 8:51 AM:

" Look Moderate- More attacks on the Patros family does not clarify the politics that were present when Clements was picked out of the herd. He did ride in primarily of the shoulders of the 'Quillin Boy'. This VB has laughable history back to the year they rented a houseboat to go up and down the river to Cities to advertise lacrosse. can you imagine? Nice tans, just not much for the buck. I do not see much has changed, and certainly no new ideas coming out of that office. I would like to hear one supplier who got shafted by Deke. "

The Moderate wrote on May 19, 2008 6:35 AM:

" Your attack on Dave Clements is unwarranted and uninformed. Clements took a cut in pay for this position because he wanted to be active in La Crosse's future (and because he was working for a narcisstic b#@tard). I would think a self proclaimed "activist" would be more appreciative of such an individual. And I know he never sued his sisters like Willy "the Patros Family" Patros. "

The Moderate wrote on May 19, 2008 6:24 AM:

" I laugh when I see anything regarding the "Patros Family". Willy sued his two sisters to wrestle control of the site. It should say "part of the Patros Family". As for Swanson liquidating his Corp., he did it because it was in "the hole". Just ask his Bankers. There are many Subcontractors and Material Suppliers who got much less than what was owed to them because of this "liquidation". "

theblob wrote on May 18, 2008 10:36 PM:

" To Bumper/NS or whatever your tag, my prior comment should have excluded you, I know you do your homework and are a local government watchdog for us little city taxpaying pions. "

Common-cents wrote on May 18, 2008 8:44 PM:

" Shame on you city leaders, my taxes keep going up and you can't ok a sale to a private developer on this site. Just think of the tens of thousands lost in taxes over the years. You keep dragging your feet and the people of LaCrosse will have a tax revolt soon.
Grab a calculator and use it. "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 8:31 PM:

" It must be close to a decade ago that Dave Pretasky wanted to dredge the backwater encompased in this area, build a protected marina, and facilitate with help shops and eating establishments. Kind of like Key West. Great idea! Although you will see our City Leaders led by Kirch and his Deputy Johnsrud spoon feed this to a compadre already selected and waiting in the wings. For now, they have their hands busy beating up one of our citizens for his family land. Because they do not have the fair market price to pay this guy, sense to involve him, or do what is right and logical. Then you would have to market this type of facility which would be far over the head of someone like Clements, who was installed because of the Quillin boy. "

unpolitical_correctness wrote on May 18, 2008 8:20 PM:

" Why does this site have to be for commercial use? Why not give back to the community and have the city practice their "beautfication" propaganda, and impliment something recreational and safe for the community. There are plenty of spaces open for business downtown. The water park mentioned before is a great example. La Crosse does not have a water hole with more than 4 slides...why not create another option for families? If you ask me, I'm getting sick of seeing office buildings being erected. They serve me no purpose. "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 8:15 PM:

" "Im worried that 10 years from now were going to be having this same conversation, said Miyamoto. The good readers of this cite are not aware that Miyamoto originally spoke up against the package that was handed to Riverside Center. Then someone got to him and his song changed. Bud, you should be busy worrying about too many present empty buildings and storefronts downtown. Not sitting up at night worry about vacant City land that can do nothing but appreciate in value.

"

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 8:08 PM:

" "I dont think we should be in a rush, Johnsrud said. For the highest and best use, patience is the best thing." This guy is a joke. Does he really think that 'most' of us have no memory. The remainder will look the other way for self serving purposes or convoluted cronyism. They ran Riverside Center II past us and the Council in two days. They even attempted to run the Hooter's Hotel by us with another Hilton driven 'now or never' time allotted "emergency". Even though the Hilton Corp apparently stuck around months for the developer to come at us again, and 'negotiate' the project without an underground ramp? City Leaders checked the wind, and decided better. Also the Holiday Express owner 'dared' ask questions why the public land was not being put up for bids. "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 8:00 PM:

" primetime- A wealth of information? Swanson liquidated and closed up a Corp. The way any Attorney or Bean Counter would have advised. Could you list me one person that got stiffed? Or maybe you could enmurate and brush over how he could have "stiffed" the City? "

primetime wrote on May 18, 2008 7:48 PM:

" Did'nt swanson go bankrupt, I don't think that would have been very mutch help for the site, he could have stiffed the city along with other area businesses. "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 7:44 PM:

" theblob- Spoken like a citizen that really gets involved! Be looking for you at the next RDA meeting? Please tell me how I will know you. "

Mack wrote on May 18, 2008 7:07 PM:

" Patience is a good thing in this case. Today's buildings are energy sieves, just like our vehicles, and are not viable for the future. "

Athenry wrote on May 18, 2008 6:50 PM:

" Let's just make all 60 acres a parking ramp then put a football stadium on top of it... "

theblob wrote on May 18, 2008 6:50 PM:

" Why do a few people keep whining about Johnsrud, the majority of people who will vote for him do not read or even know about this blog. Bring your concerns up to your council person, unless of course you live outside the city and love to complain. Just like the last common council election, not one incumbent was defeated, after all the whining on here to oust them. Maybe try to get involved to work towards solution to problem, rather than the old whine. "

happy_camper1015 wrote on May 18, 2008 2:42 PM:

" ok! i think it's time to vote johnsrud out as mayor of lax, and just hope we get a new mayor that will listen to what people of la crosse have to say.. what happened to freedom? i think mr. patros should do what he needs to do to the land so they can't comdemn it, and build a big waterpark, and screw the rest of the people that want it.. their really not worried about making la crosse look better because it's all about money to them.. don't forget it sounds like the patros land was inherited from a lost loved one, and this might be the only thing left in rememberance of them so just let's get the waterpark going.. "

maki wrote on May 18, 2008 2:17 PM:

" I feel for the Patros Family. Nobody wants their property seized for less than market value. I just wish that Patros would allow bicycles through the trail though. It's blocked up just because the hobos held a convention there a few years ago. The hobos cleaned up, I don't understand why we have to suffer for years because of the hobos who didn't cause any damage. We need a bridge over the river for bikes so we can stay away from the bridges that the traffic uses. I must say that the extended walkway along Riverside is real nice. When will the trail behind Festival Foods be developed? I also agree that Johnsrud has to go. He's too secretive and buddy-buddy with developers. "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 11:41 AM:

" Where were you during Riverside Center II? The "empty lot over the bridge" and the 60' of riverfront will never be taken. Patros will be forced out. All I ever have wanted in this City is for all business to be above board and on top of the table. So that we may scrutinize it if desired (Back to my original sentence, where were you?). For goodness sakes we have a Council going to a retreat and we cannot even provide a cheap few hours to give them a seminar on Roberts Rules by Monk. Instead we allow business to be run by bullies, and BS. Who of you have ever attended an RDA meeting and watched Kirch run it from the folding chairs in front of the Board? Who? "

HonestAbe wrote on May 18, 2008 11:27 AM:

" The empty lot over the bridge (old Holiday Inn), is another shining example of how well this city negotiates 'for the people'.

GET SOMETHING DONE JOHNSRUD ... prove us curmudgeons wrong ... please. "

HonestAbe wrote on May 18, 2008 11:20 AM:

" davidinlse, you asked "what offer". Did you read all the offers listed in the article?

ANY of them is better than an empty area that harbors tents full of hobos, the only tax being made on it now is alcohol and cig taxes!

Too many people are over thinking this, and the stubborn city is strongarming the wrong people, thus, we have what the photo shows, nothing. "

HonestAbe wrote on May 18, 2008 11:17 AM:

" davidinlse, well, they're still going to do that with TIFs and other desperate moves NOW.
If they weren't so hard headed 12 years ago, that would be an up and running income at this point, which would be better than what we have now.

Personally, I voted FOR the casino idea, sickens me to see all the bus loads of people with fat wallets getting carted out of our town multiple times a day! You can drive a short way to get to one now, so the problems wouldn't have been much different, just less traveling. My only problem with that is the indians would have owned the property, but that could have been negotiated. Too many conservatives dwelled on the problems, big surprise. "

Mack wrote on May 18, 2008 11:03 AM:

" We need to be careful or we'll end up with another LHI deal that doesn't bring the promised jobs but instead empties other downtown buildings. "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 10:54 AM:

" Lastly- "The city only has about $400,000 on hand, Kirch said, and the balance would be incorporated into a tax increment finance district." A true statement! When we first started to utilize TIF it was for under 10 years period. Now it is 27 years? The ramifications are real and expensive to taxpayers, no property tax income. No money? Outr City Leaders with Pfaffs knowledge have thrown monies into 'THE' muddled account that is pretty much a City Slush Fund. With the real possibilty of borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. While there is no itemization of makeup of that fund, or a proper 'disbursement ledger' in house regarding that fund. People!!! This is called 'creative bookkeeping in the real world.
"

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 10:37 AM:

" Third- Mayor Johnsrud waves the banner of "patience" at us? The man who stood by Kirh's side who fast-tracked Riverside Center II through without Council reading contract or plans. Who then told us it was a Meeting Room, and Building One held 700 employees? As they filled Building two with existing tenants and commerce from town as older less shiny waterfront buildings become, or still remain empty downtown? Another waterfront parcel, you understand? That could have become an adjacent heart of downtown extension of beloved Riverside Park donated by Cargill/McMillans in their namesake? Which certainly confuses me coupled with Clements and Johnsrud's quotes on the need for extending the Riverfront Park into Patros land as they just plunked down two buildings almost on top of the water downtown? "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 10:17 AM:

" Second- Have we forgotten the order of events on the Mr. D's travesty? Kirch is in charge. The Mayor will lose his office, Kirch will remain. There is the interesting power struggle in our future. Add to that at least three Department heads will be replaced in the period between next election. Although they will not elect the new Mayor. It is my feeling that Medinger will run and if successful the cycle will continue. The cycle of good ole boy 'secret' developer talks that Johnsrud implemented almost immediately, and spoon feeding deals covertly with no public input or knowledge until fasttracking occurs and the Council votes have been counted. As they historically have not seen plans or contract? Otherwise Borsheim would not have built adjacent and is now unabashidly drooling at this site. "

Bumper wrote on May 18, 2008 10:00 AM:

" First- We all need to reflect that Barron Island and Mobil border the water front. Hoeschler owns the 60' of frontage on Barron. The "impasses" that the City hit with the last developer was that they would not move to 'take' the land from the Hoeschler family by ED. So ultimately Jay will be the heir to the entire parcel because the rules will not be level for all parcels and developers in our City. By his side is Jordan as a partner who cooked a deal for Campbell to buy Skipperliner Marina, then acquire Federal 'taxpayer' monies in the form of EPA funds to clean the site, and then sell it back to Joradan. How then was given more creative Campbell financing, and soon after proceeded to Onalaska where he bought a $7 figure house for himself. "

davidinlse wrote on May 18, 2008 9:31 AM:

" RE; mjr wrote on May 18, 2008 9:19 AM: I know you not capable of focusing on the discussion, but try for once. By the way, the king mark nonsense is just that. The incompetent putz will be gone next election, so you can start thinking up your next form of redundent ranting now.

"

mjr wrote on May 18, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Hey Davidinlse is Don Weber a Lacrosse resident NOT!!!!! You and King Mark are both a joke. I pray the next mayor cleans house and the first one he fires is lying Larry Kirch!!!!! "

davidinlse wrote on May 18, 2008 8:10 AM:

" RE: HonestAbe wrote on May 18, 2008 1:43 AM:
WHAT offer? If your refering to casino's and fest grounds, they should be rejected. Every inch of land that can be developed as taxable real estate should be developed. Then, and only then should the rest of the land be allowed to be used as recreation. This is just another disaster waiting to happen. This will become another bleeding ceaspool of financial incompetence by our city. Swanson offered nothing that did not involve the city financing his dreams. He wasn't even a city resident.
"

HonestAbe wrote on May 18, 2008 1:43 AM:

" Seems to me the city has shunned and rejected every offer on the table, why didn't 'the city' play nice with Swanson to begin with ... would have made plenty of taxes by now while it sat as a hobo hangout for 12 years! unreal

I dont think we should be in a rush, Johnsrud said. For the highest and best use, patience is the best thing.
---What a crock!---

Freakin power tripper "

HonestAbe wrote on May 18, 2008 1:33 AM:

"
Instead of a marina, how about a boardwalk for restaurants and shops to sell their items ... even to boat traffic? "

HonestAbe wrote on May 18, 2008 1:33 AM:

" """Mayor Mark Johnsrud is confident in 10 years the site will show signs of progress."""

priceless

Ya, because he'll be history LOL


Glad Patros is sticking to his guns! Needing Patros land is a copout, not a reason!
"

dbl lung wrote on May 18, 2008 12:37 AM:

" I am smelling another TIF district in the distant future. With any luck Johnsrud will not be around to make it happen. "


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