just the facts wrote on May 26, 2008 9:49 AM:
" To YMW; DITTO! "
just the facts wrote on May 26, 2008 9:47 AM:
" To YMW; DITTO ! "
Yellow media watch wrote on May 25, 2008 7:27 AM:
" It is irritating when people come on here and make stupid comments based on knowing nothing about the issues and not bothering to Google something and read for five minutes.
LEARN something each day...it will make you a better person and you will have value and add to the discussion instead of feeding ignorance.
Fact is, ignorant people vote too, and that is why we continue to have political problems time and again...It will never end until people wake up and stop falling for emotional and inaccurate crap. "
just the facts wrote on May 22, 2008 6:04 AM:
" Sounds like YMW and Donatello are lawyers! If so they are a big part of the problem! Why does YMW know so many people who belong in prison? I guess you can't talk about the law if your not a lawyer.Iv'e never been hit by a car but I'm not going to stand in the street and get hit, just so I can know how it feels! Stick to the subject. "
notme wrote on May 21, 2008 10:06 PM:
" Well, let's see.
Ken asked for a better idea, and I suggested shortening the appellate process and bringing back capital punishment for many of these offenders. Swift and absolute punishment worked years ago, and it is my opinion that we go back to it.
The result was three different monikers all attacking and insulting me. I find that interesting...
I am not an attorney and never claimed to be one, but it is obvious that at least two monikers seem to think they know something about the law, good for them.
As for me, I'll stick to my 1st amendment right to state my opinion when ever and where ever I see fit. "
Donatello wrote on May 21, 2008 6:15 PM:
" not me,
you didn't answer the question, so it proves you talk(blog) too much and listen(educate yourself) to little.
When you have a clue what you are saying please feel free to join the discussion. "
notme wrote on May 20, 2008 9:08 PM:
" WOW, you insulted, judged, and sentenced an anonymous blogger.
That is radical. "
Yellow media watch wrote on May 20, 2008 6:17 PM:
" BTW
I know a lot of people that have never been to jail that should not only be in jail, but be in prison for life...If stupidity and ignorance was a crime you would have been executed long ago... "
Yellow media watch wrote on May 20, 2008 6:09 PM:
" not me,
I want you to tell me what the basic grounds are for an appeal, and what that has to do with guilt or innocence.
I hope you know more than I think you do.
If you don't/cant answer please say so. "
notme wrote on May 20, 2008 3:57 PM:
" bearcat25: What does "you go first" mean?
I'm not currently nor have I ever been a resident of the La Crosse County jail, or any other jail for that matter.
Please, explain your comment. "
bearcat25 wrote on May 20, 2008 1:02 PM:
" Notme-
I vote you go first... "
notme wrote on May 20, 2008 12:12 PM:
" Ken
wrote on May 19, 2008 8:02 AM:
"If this program is such a crock, does anyone have a better idea?"
YES I DO, and I've posted it several times. After conviction, give EXACTLY 30 calendar days for appeals, NO MORE, NO LESS.
After that, "Hang 'em High." I'll donate the materials and labor to build the gallows myself. I'll have the jail emptied out in no time at all, no need to add on, and the crime rate WILL GO DOWN. "
tkburr3 wrote on May 20, 2008 7:57 AM:
" $10 per hour? That is wayyyy too much. If a person is working off fines they should work twice as hard and only get minimum wage!! There are hard working single moms, single dads, a lot of different folks that aren't getting paid $10 per hour at their jobs and they are working to take care of themselves and children!!! I think the program is a good one but $10 an hour is too much!!! "
bailey58 wrote on May 19, 2008 10:54 PM:
" Awe, little Doylie had a bright idea! That would be a first! "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 10:15 PM:
" My biggest concern is the bail monitoring system. The judges are giving too many signature bonds with monitoring including child sex offenders (some of who are re-arrested within a week for violating conditions of their bond). Sanctions has too many people to effectively monitor and too many are re-offending while on bail monitoring. That doesn't sit well with my public safety background. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 10:15 PM:
" Citizen75, I will have to agree that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Our justice system would be better off dumping money into prevention programs that teach life skills and a strong economy doesn't hurt either. I also agree that this particular program outlined here isn't for the Steven Avery's of the world. My concern is that we have dumped a crapload of money into various justice sanctions programs because it is the sexy and politically correct thing to do in this county. It is the flavor of the day and believed to be the panacea for our problems by some. "
citizen75 wrote on May 19, 2008 7:31 PM:
" Willie you're right in one regard that the system enables criminals. But it is designed to do that. Let 10 criminals go free before putting one innocent in jail. If we only spent 10% on prevention what we do on incarceration we would be a lot better off. But I hear as much complaining about prevenative programs as I do this. Everyone makes mistakes that are unlawful. It sounds like these are the people that did get caught. They are still human beings and deserve fair treatment. They are in the local jail for stupid stuff and under supervised release to clean garbage. They aren't the Steve Averys' of the world let out of the SuperMax to babysit your kids.
Oh and just for the record. I am the furthist from a liberal you can get. Just a realist "
just the facts wrote on May 19, 2008 6:57 PM:
" citizen 75 , I reject your premise that prisons were made to reform! You have fallen prey to your liberal bretheran. The facts are that prisons were meant to remove these criminals from society where they obviously did not fit,to deny them certain freedoms and to protect fellow citizens from their crimes for certain periods of time! The reform took place when they realized that crime did'nt pay. Reform my rearend! 9 out of 10 of these people are multiple offenders and have skipped bail more than once. Read the daily court report! "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 6:29 PM:
" Your right citizen75, I hate the fact that criminals in this town are not held accountable for their crimes and obligations. Where is the responsibility? Where is the justice? That makes me angry and it should make any sensible person mad too, because statistically over your lifetime you will be the victim of crime at some point. Even a liberal minded person should want to help these people stay out of trouble. This system of justice just enables repeat offenders. "
citizen75 wrote on May 19, 2008 5:27 PM:
" Wow. Is this a touchy subjct. There is some truth in here though. We as WI citizens lock up more per capita than many European countries, and in the US anyway, prisons were not made to inflict pain, they were made to reform. Hence the VII Amendment. Look at the history of the penal system especially Pennsylvania. These are not hardened criminals and most Americans think they are above picking up trash for a living. Its just play money, not real money so why cry. As for complaining about how much the administer makes, get a education, make contacts, and get a government job and quit being so jealous. For all you complainers you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Either way you are still whiners and Willie you are full of hate and anger. "
Phil wrote on May 19, 2008 5:20 PM:
" No one here mentions the fact that of all of the jobs listed here, that these criminals do, already have a person hired by the city or county who has the reponsibility to clean these areas!!! So we are esentially paying twice to get these areas cleaned!! Make them do the time. This is just a prime example of right wing liberals at work. "
random annoying bozo wrote on May 19, 2008 4:05 PM:
" isn't it a wonderful world? only in America could you have people who delved in crime taking jobs away from people who walk the straight and narrow. and at 10 bucks an hour no less. how about paying the minimum wage? and as far as this being a win-win. nothing could be farther from the truth. as ussual it's the taxpayer who loses, we have mythical wages siphoning off legitimate fines. just like the old adage says, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. "
4justice wrote on May 19, 2008 12:01 PM:
" How are these criminals being supervised? By a drive-by at the end of the day? I highly doubt these people are actually working the amount of hours they say they are. Let's remember, it was being a fine upstanding citizen that got them into this situation to begin with. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 11:49 AM:
" There are alternatives to running this program the way it is now. When it started, they were housed in the Huber center, where they paid $10.55/ day to live there and were allowed to work off their fines. If they are working, payment plans and percentage based garnisheed paychecks are still the best way to go. If they aren't working then there are alternatives where they could be given a wage with a percentage going toward the fine. I would suggest they get half, but legally they might have to make at least minimum wage as pay. This would only work if they are paid less than the county could hire someone else to do the work. It can't be applied in a manner where three people are standing around watching one work either, or that defeats the purpose of the program. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 11:16 AM:
" I doubt this program makes that big of a dent in the population due to the fact that the average inmate with a warrant was already picked up on other charges or held for probation and parole. The police just don't have the time to aggressively hunt warrants. The people that come into jail on just warrants usually bond out within a day or two anyway. People that end up staying usually have several warrants, which begs the question on how they are to learn responsibility for their actions if they are allowed to "work" it off at a rate of $10/hour. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 11:08 AM:
" The cost of keeping and inmate is estimated at $55 to $60/ day for most facilities, but in reality it costs the roughly same amount of money to run a facility whether there are 2 inmates or 200 inmates. The cost of the facility and staffing is most of that cost. Meals at most places are contracted for about $3 or less per inmate/ per meal. Laundry is done "in house" in most places as well. Contractors bid in for a yearly contract based on the average population anyway so that cost won't change either, unless programs make a significant impact on the facility's population. That estimated cost is used to determine what to charge other jurisdictions for housing their inmates and it is usually negotiable from municipality to municipality. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 10:56 AM:
" Joebob, it does cost in lost revenue from fines. Plus you have to pay for a coordinator and supervision. Sure you are getting work out of them, but minimum wage credit would be more appropriate for picking up trash. Think toll road principle, most revenue from highway tolls goes to toll takers salaries, maintenance of the toll booths, and infrastructure instead of going toward the maintenance of the roads they are supposed to pay for. I have travelled many parts of the country, and with the exception of Florida, toll ways are by far some of the worst roads I have driven on. This fine program in reality is a wash at best, not win-win. "
Joebob wrote on May 19, 2008 10:30 AM:
" Simply stated, if this program cleans up our city and doesn't cost our city anything (remember, they are working off fines at $10/hour not being paid out of city coffer) then, in fact, it is a win-win situation. Perhaps they could use their more specialized skills to beifit (save money) for the city. For example, if they are a welder, maybe they cold fix the county's snowplows. If they are a cook, they could work in the jail kitchen. Jail is meant as a way for a person who has committed a crime to repay their debt to society. A person who has to sit in jail will in most cases lose their job if they have one. How will they repay a fine with no job? "
Ducky wrote on May 19, 2008 10:02 AM:
" Ten dollars an hr. sure is rewarding them for bad behavior. That wage is much more than a lot of good honest workers. Lower the amount the crimals get so it takes them longer to do the work.Giving them a small wage would help. And yes the old chain gang style would be fitting. Seems like in the Us crimals are rewarded and the good guy gets the shaft. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 9:31 AM:
" Terri, most of these guys don't finish sitting out their fines anyway. They get family members or friends to pay them, or set up payment plans which usually require a downpayment. That is how most LaCrosse city warrants are taken care of. Many get tired of sitting in jail and pay them off anyway. (They don't get pro-rated credit toward their fines either). Marcou has the right idea, at least get some money out of them. Even if they never completely pay off the fine, it is better than paying an employee of the county to set up these guys to work off a lose, lose situation. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 9:15 AM:
" I am not against this idea necessarily, but they should be jail inmates chained together with a mounted deputy guarding them with a shotgun. This program shouldn't be seen as a way out of fines for people. Perhaps minimum wage credit would be more appropriate. I liked it better when they had to sleep in the Huber center every night. There are two sides of that $63,000 coin as well. That is all fine money that the county never received from slugs that have no motivation to work. Is it fair that hard working people that get tickets and fines pay theirs, while these people get away without paying one dime? Why do you think they can't afford to pay off their fines in the first place? Drug and alcohol abuse? Most have substance abuse issues that "prevent" them from working. "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 9:04 AM:
" Jail was created to be a mean, nasty, and dank environment for a reason. Now prisoners are treated more "humanely", and if they don't get their cable TV, free phone calls, Mayo Clinic quality health care, and a free college education they want to sue! Of course they don't get those things (yet), but they seem to expect it and the lawsuits reflect that. I wonder how our stats compare to Maricopa Co. Arizona? "
Willie wrote on May 19, 2008 9:04 AM:
" Ken, lets delve into your "statistics". Why do you think that "tamer" criminals get locked up at such high numbers? Maybe because we are so soft on our prisoners that jail and prison are no longer a deterrent. How much of a deterrent is it if, no matter what crime they commit, they know that they have a chance to go home on bond monitoring. Of course they all don't, but you would be shocked at how many of them think they should. What is more shocking is some of those that you wouldn't think would qualify actually do get to go home on a bracelet! "
bearcat25 wrote on May 19, 2008 8:30 AM:
" It seems like those of you who are against it will be the first ones to notice how dirty and garbage laced our parks or if we didn't have the program. You just can't win with some people...
I agree with Ken, and its not like these are hardened "criminals" I'm sure most of their violations aren't even considered a crime. Yes thats right folks crime has a state definition, just because you get a speeding ticket doesn't make it a "crime". A "crime" is only committed if the charges are considered to be misdemeanor or felony...but...I guess some people are just too perfect in their own little worlds. "
just the facts wrote on May 19, 2008 8:30 AM:
" Ken, you are so right! What we are doing now is not working! When career criminals realize that they will go to jail, serve the entire sentence and pay restitution, and not have a spa for a prison then maybe people like you will have to change careers! We're tired of coddeling criminals! Did'nt you pay attention to the last judicial elections? "
Terri wrote on May 19, 2008 8:25 AM:
" I think this is a grand idea. I am always shocked at how much garbage is on the side of the highways around here. And I don't see many people out there volunteering to clean things up. So if a person can work off his/her fine by cleaning up all the liter, it saves us money from housing them in jail (remember, they aren't going to pay the fine anyway)and we get cleaner highways. What's wrong with that?
When I ran a daycare many years ago, we went for walks most days. I took a grocery bag and picked up garage with the kids. It was part lesson for the kids and part just being a citizen.
And people START CLEANING UP AFTER YOURSELVES!
"
Ken wrote on May 19, 2008 8:02 AM:
" Pretasky and klekamp are not politicians, but nice try. If this program is such a crock, does anyone have a better idea? In 2007, Wisconsin locked up 22,690 and spent $890 million dollars on corrections. Whatever WI is doing now, is not working. WI has one the highest per capita rates in the world. Compared to the rest of the world WI crime statistics are tame. Then why are so many WI citizens incarcerated? My opinion is job creation, on the backs of the taxpayers. Just think what will happen when truth in sentencing has its full effect and parole eligible convicts no longer exist in the corrections system. Both prison population and cost will explode. "
free_speech wrote on May 19, 2008 6:37 AM:
" La Crosse is a very attractive place to commit crimes. They have no jail for females, no room in the men's jail so everyone gets justice sanctions, and now this. "
just the facts wrote on May 19, 2008 6:33 AM:
" Tell me more about this fairy land farce. Let's see, we pay two administrators $70,000 plus benefits to pay criminals $10 per hour ; which comes from nowhere; and is magically credited to some non existant account, somewhere. No small wonder the accounting is complicated! Klekamp and pretasky would make good politicians! Oh, thats right, they are! "
Krusty wrote on May 19, 2008 6:16 AM:
" This program should be used much more often, they should also keep a squad of (special forces, HA!) of idiots that were caught spray painting on call, for 5 years after they were sentenced for "tagging". These people should be the ones called anytime, day, or night, to clean up and new graffitti. Imagine knowing that you would have to be on call for 5 years to clean up tagging, I bet you wouldn't do it again. "
just the facts wrote on May 19, 2008 6:16 AM:
" What a crock of BULL.Pretasky and klekamp should be picking up the garbage.Yes we can all make mistakes but we don't! IF these are such fine , upstanding citizens they would have jobs and the ability to pay off a fine! In most cases, as the record does show , these people are repeat offenders and their families are far better off separated from them! The fantasy $67,000 that they claim is just like them; a lot of smoke! "
Sully wrote on May 19, 2008 5:14 AM:
" This will get complicated as soon as the IRS hears about it. I would bet that this is considered earned income. A good idea though if we are really getting ten dollars an hour worth of work. Who is liable if they get step off a curb and break an ankle, or get hit by a car? "