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The controversy over allegations that a doctor who works part-time at Mayo Clinic Health System-Franciscan Healthcare performs abortions is boiling over, prompting La Crosse Bishop William Callahan to label it “scandalous.”

The imbroglio began March 5, when Leif and Karen Arvidson of La Crosse began leading almost-daily pickets outside Mayo-Franciscan, based on their contention that Dr. Carl Rose of Mayo in Rochester, Minn., had advised an abortion during a difficult pregnancy in 2012.

Neither Mayo Clinic Health System-Franciscan Healthcare nor Mayo Clinic have unambiguously said whether Rose performs abortions.

The dispute is likely to heat up more on Wednesday, when anti-abortionists plan to escalate their protests at Mayo-Franciscan because, they say, Rose will be working as a consultant on high-risk pregnancies there that day.

The Arvidsons said they met with Callahan on June 24, when he gave them a statement he had given to Mayo-Franciscan administrators and the Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration, a La Crosse-based religious order that co-sponsors the hospital with Mayo Clinic.

The couple posted it, along with Callahan’s picture, on their “Expose Mayo” website Friday, saying Callahan had told them they could disseminate it as they saw fit.

However, the diocese said Monday that the statement wasn’t official because it didn’t come from diocesan headquarters. It then issued an official statement.

The unofficial statement, dated May 31, said Catholic hospitals must follow the U.S. bishops’ Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Healthcare Services, which ban abortion services and counseling.

“It must be said that the recent concerns regarding the association of Mayo Clinic Health System-Franciscan Healthcare with possible abortion counseling or referral is scandalous,” the statement said.

“It must be noted, however, that abortions have not been performed in the past, nor will they be tolerated in the future, at Mayo Clinic Health System-Franciscan Healthcare,” the statement said.

“As shepherd of the Diocese of La Crosse, I soberly call upon all involved to protect vigorously the implementation of the ERDs in accord with Catholic teachings through regular evaluations and reviews of policies, procedures and internal actions with the established ethics committees who work in collaboration and consultation with me as the local bishop,” said the statement to Mayo-Franciscan and FSPA leaders.

Mayo-Franciscan and the FSPAs also issued reactions Monday in response to requests for comments on the bishop’s original statement.

Mayo-Franciscan CEO Dr. Tim Johnson said, “The organization is very appreciative of the bishop’s support of the Catholic hospital in La Crosse and its benefit to the community, and the dialogue we’ve been able to have with him on this issue over the last several months. We also appreciate the guidance we have received from our sponsors, the Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration.

“Franciscan Healthcare remains committed to compassionate, high-quality health care for all of our patients in accord with its Catholic mission and our legal and medical obligations,” Johnson said.

The FSPA statement quoted Sister Karen Lueck, the order’s president, as saying, in part, “We move forward, together with Bishop Callahan and Mayo Clinic Health System-Franciscan Healthcare, continuing to honor our responsibilities as stewards of the Gospel ministry of healing. We do this by answering the bishop’s call in his statement for continued regular evaluations and reviews of policies, procedures and internal actions.”

FSPA leaders will work with Mayo-Franciscan and the bishop to “ensure that all ethical and religious guidelines are communicated effectively to and evaluated regularly with all of our partners in our sponsored ministries.”

The diocesan statement issued Monday quoted Callahan as saying, in part, that Mayo-Franciscan, “founded on Catholic principles and maintained by the Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration, has a long history of providing health care that closely follows the Ethical and Religious Directives,” Callahan said.

“We are convinced that all parties will continue to work towards the common goals that support the ideals of the Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration and the teachings of the church regarding Catholic health care,” the new statement said.

Mayo in Rochester also issued a statement in response to a query about whether Rose does abortions there. Although not addressing abortions specifically, a hospital spokesman said, “Perinatologists in Rochester provide highly specialized care to patients with high-risk pregnancies and bring their expertise to La Crosse to assist patients locally. At times, a patient may opt to travel to Rochester when a higher level of care is necessary for a variety of conditions.”

The anti-abortion protesters say they will be satisfied with nothing less than forcing Mayo-Franciscan to end its relationship with Rose.

“We’re confident that will happen because there’s such a large movement to have Dr. Rose and any other doctors who do abortions removed,” said Leif Arvidson, who also is executive director of Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine in La Crosse.

That movement will include expanding the picketing time Wednesday from the usual noon to 2 p.m. to 8 a.m. to 5:30 p.m., Arvidson said.

“It’s not appropriate to have an abortion provider treat pregnant women and babies,” Arvidson said. “This community won’t accept abortion doctors at the Catholic hospital.”

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Mike Tighe is the Tribune newsroom's senior citizen. That said, he don't get no respect from the cub reporters as he goes about his duly-appointed rounds on the health, religion and whatever-else-lands-in-his-inbox beats. Call him at 608-791-8446.

(286) comments

catnip

It is Wend the 12th of August and the "protest " is much shrunken. Could it be that publicity was the death of this movement. To much attention to the connections between the failed Raymond Burke and the Arvidsons. They seemed to aspire to take the mention of the possibility of mentioning of abortion to be a spring board for Mr. Arvidson's path as a follower of the now much reduced Cardinal Burke. Nice to walk in to my Wednesday appointment without listening to the griping of the misinformed. May be their time will be spent (as the Pope directed) to the needs of the poor and the community rather than culture wars.

Truthsayer

Jesus never once mentioned ABORTION during his time on Earth......who are these BLASPHEMER's claiming to know and speak the will o God?

7

They call themselves “beautiful Catholics” (indicated in an earlier post). However, they aren’t in PARTNERSHIP with Jesus Christ, who is supposed to be their guide.

Callahan is in PARTNERSHIP with whoever brings in the most money to the institution, but out of respect for his predecessor Burke, he needs to play politics and meet with the Arvidsons.

The Arvidsons are in PARTNERSHIP with Cardinal Burke via the Shrine. Burke is the leader of the militant pro-lifers who are blinded by their own agenda. I doubt the Arvidsons would be grandstanding without Burke’s Blessing. They look for ways to stir up the controversy even if it means misrepresenting the facts. They think it makes them saints or better Catholics.

They should be less concerned about the dogma that they think makes them good Catholics, and should be more concerned about being followers of Jesus Christ.

catnip

It seems after the Burke connection is in the light of day the urge to protest has subsided greatly. Especially since Burke's influence is much reduced.

Faust

I think it would be best for all concerned if Mayo just cut its ties to the catholic church altogether. If they were to give onto the demands of the radical few like the Arvidsons I would question the motivation behind diagnosis and care for my family. From a business standpoint, I fail to see the benefit for Mayo to align itself with such a radically right movement steeped in bigotry, arrogance, superstition, and fear.

Jobaba

Just to be clear, since there are a LOT of uninformed people posting comments here - there have been no murders of babies. No one is suspected of murder, no one is being prosecuted for murder, and no investigations into hospital activities involving murder have been started.

Jeffersonian

Just to be clear, since there are a LOT of uninformed people posting comments here Mayo Clinic Health System - Franciscan Medical Center is in fact a "Catholic institution". CEO Dr. admits it is and that they will abide by the Ethical and Religious Directives as the Bishop instructed.

Thank you Arvidson's for shining light on the scandal of abortionists working at this Catholic institution. I am sorry for the terrible things the Godless people of La Crosse are spewing on this forum.

catnip

The hospital, building, land, and staff are full on hired or owned by Mayo Healthcare. Accreditations and pay are through Mayo. The CEO was interviewed and hired by Mayo. Although the Catholic Church is involved in “pastoral care”. If the bishop pulled all contact tomorrow, there would be no effect on the medical functions of the clinic and hospital.

Veritas

You are avoiding the truth. Mayo is involved as a partner in a Catholic hospital. Sorry that bothers you so much. But as a Catholic hospital they have to follow the Catholic rules.

catnip

They do not follow Catholic dogma, are deeply involved in providing birth control at several clinics, refer for stem cell treatment, and preform surgical sterilization , and refer out for chemical /medical terminations from family practice, Women's clinic, and occasionally pediatrics (in cases of assault and such). They have done all of this for years. Just because some self important prig was unhappy that she did not just live and have a healthy child but is mortally offered that she is given information that is part of the medical world, the world will not go backward for her. The bishop can withdraw from pastoral cars and partnership with Mayo, patients will still be seen. I guess the Arvidson's can hop up on the bishops desk to get her pregnancy care and exams in the religious manner she feels comfortable with.

catnip

The 'partnership can be dissolved by either side . possibly time to end it.

Dave Cleveland

Life apparently begins at the point that a woman wants to discuss her options. Franciscan-Skemp might be cosponsored by the FSPA but, as far as I know anyway, ownership lies with Mayo Healthcare System which is secular and not a religious organization, and it has for at least 20 years. In my opinion it is despicable of these grandstanders to even suggest that Mayo, a privately owned organization, needs to fire an individual for merely counseling and informing someone of what there life choices might be. And by the way, it doesn't appear to me that it was anyone from Mayo who said anything about Franciscan Hospital being a Catholic hospital. Their passion is admirable but the way that these protesters are trying to accomplish their ends is really questionable.

Jeffersonian

Dave, you should check with the CEO of the hospital. He says it's a Catholic hospital and that they will abide by the ERDs. So...as far as you know is completely wrong.

catnip

The Arvidson's moved here for Mr. Arvidson. to be the CEO of the past bishop Raymond Burk's massive gold and marble edifice of a shrine. It has not proven to be the money maker the past and now disgraced bishop billed it to be. There is a need to puff up the position possibly with a cause??

Veritas

We do not build shrines to make money. How misled and angry you are. I wonder why? "Puff up" the position? You are so hateful.

CARDINAL Burke is FAR from disgraced. He is revered worldwide for his scholarship and leadership. Some heretics get upset about his adherence to church doctrine and canon law on the hedonistic issues of so-called "gay marriage", the blaphemous idea of ordaining women priests, and of course the killing of your own offspring in the name of convenience.

catnip

He is in a small back office, no longer the head of review boards. That is his disgrace for hiding numerous pedophiles in his long tenure. As well as living as a middle ages prince of the church in a time when the pope speaks of humbleness, turning away from culture wars and to pastoral care of the people. All the gold and marble of the of the shrine shire would have helped a lot of helpless poor people.

If the shrine is not the money maker and drawing in the faithful and donations, the position of CEO (with CEO's pay) drops to a site manager or is simply run by the bishops office. :( no big pay for these very important and righteous to raise their large brood and sickly wife.

catnip

Pope Francis moved on Monday against a conservative American cardinal who has been an outspoken critic of abortion and same-sex marriage, by replacing him on a powerful Vatican committee with another American who is less identified with the culture wars within the Roman Catholic Church.
The pope’s decision to remove Cardinal Raymond L. Burke from the Congregation for Bishops was taken by church experts to be a signal that Francis is willing to disrupt the Vatican establishment in order to be more inclusive.
Cardinal Burke, who came to the Vatican in 2008 after serving as archbishop of St. Louis, is a favorite of many conservative Catholics in the United States for his upholding of church rites and traditions favored by Pope Benedict XVI. Cardinal Burke’s preference for the long train of billowing red silk known as cappa magna, and other such vestments, has, however, made him seem out of step with Francis, who has made it clear through example that he prefers more humble attire.

catnip

Raymond Burke - Last week, Cardinal Burke also seemed to create more substantive daylight between himself and the pope, giving an interview in which he raised concerns about comments by Francis that the church should reduce the focus on abortion and same-sex marriage.

“One gets the impression, or it’s interpreted this way in the media, that he thinks we’re talking too much about abortion, too much about the integrity of marriage as between one man and one woman,” Cardinal Burke said of the pope in an interview with EWTN, a Catholic broadcaster. “But we can never talk enough about that.”

Since his election as pope in March, Francis has received glowing news media coverage and widespread adulation from the faithful for putting a kinder, more inclusive face on a global institution that had been widely perceived as out of touch. He has expressed an intention to reorganize and overhaul the Roman Curia, the bureaucracy that governs the church.

catnip

Cardinal Burke still serves as the prefect of the Vatican’s highest canonical court, but analysts say his removal from the Congregation for Bishops will sharply reduce his influence, especially over personnel changes in American churches.

Replacement of Raymond Burke, -----“The Congregation for Bishops is the most important congregation in the Vatican,” said the Rev. Thomas J. Reese, a Jesuit priest and the author of “Inside the Vatican: The Politics and Organization of the Catholic Church.”

“It decides who are going to be the bishops all over the world,” he added. “This is what has the most direct impact on the life of the local church.”

Veritas

Not at all questionable. As a Catholic I did not know there were abortionists seeing vulnerable pregnant women at our Catholic hospital. Arvidsons brought that to light, and every Catholic needs to know this, and we have to urge the CEO and the sisters to change this policy.

No one is going to be "fired". Dr. Rose can chop up babies in Rochester, just not at Franciscan one day a month.

catnip

Dr Rose sees high risk women at La Crosse rather than them driving to Mayo. He see high risk because he specializes in this. He also gives full information, allowing individuals an women to see all options. Some pregnancies or fetus will not make it and may well take the mother with them. I a woman choses to go with the fetus it is a choice, all that freedom to all. Any terminations that are choses do not happen at Mayo -La Crosse. I when I was pregnant wanted the best doctor, skill, knowledge, practice others can choose to see their prayer leader. But no whining if you miss carry driving to Mayo because you will not see the doctor here.

Frangel45

After reading most of the comments - I am so sick of religious factions of all stripes bullying themselves around legitimate businesses who seriously expect us to patronize them - REALLY??? The Arvidson's have the right to make their own choices - if they didn't like their doctor - there are others to choose from - just like Hobby Lobby and other bullies, you have no business demanding anyone else abides by your choices for your peace of mind. Shame on all those that have fallen for their narrow cause, including Bishop Callahan. Manage your own members and let the rest of the world abide by their own beliefs - who are you to say you are right and we are wrong?

Catholic Dad

It seems the details of the story went right over your head. This is a Catholic hospital. The Arvidsons are Catholic. They are protesting to make other CATHOLICS aware that there are abortionists working at our Catholic hospital. Whew!

descheneaux

On another thread I would like to bring a bit of realilty to this debate. Does Franciscan-Skemp make birth control services and products available to its patients? If the answer is yes, and I believe it is, then this is contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church. WHY? I suspect the answer is simple; Not doing so would likely condemn the clinic and institution to failure in today's marketplace. Therefore, we make a defacto modification to save the business/life of the institution. The Catholic Church has, throughout its history, changed their dogmas when it was necessary to survive. They will again when necessary. They are no different than other powerful interests and institutions. They are very aware of what the market will bear or continuing viability of membershp/support demands. Go to other nations, around the world, and see how the Catholic Churches adopt their ways and rules to make their churches viable. Are you aware that some current Catholic priests are married? WHY?

descheneaux

I write as an arrogant non-catholic who feels he has a right to an opinion about the hospital in question. My family has used Franciscan-Skemp Clinic and Hospital since moving into the area 20 years ago. We have our annual physicals, as needed appointments, have had surgery and expensive tests and procedures done, and our primary physicians are at Franciscan-Skemp. We intend to continue doing so. My family has reveived very good quality service there. I do expect my professional medical people to be highly skilled and to use science and the latest medical advances in making decisions and recommendations to us. I do not want them to use religious dogma or other religious considerations in advising anyone in this family. If we felt they were doing so we would go elsewhere. I am really rather quite arrogant as I feel this families loyalty and support, running into literally 10's of thousands of dollars over the past decades, gives us every right to a say in this matter.

Veritas

You have the arrogant part right. But it is no longer Franciscan-Skemp. If you don't want Catholic healthcare then you should choose another hospital. This one is Catholic.

catnip

Bwhaaaahaaa It is not a Catholic hospital the last bishop sold the building, land, and contents to Mayo. It has been a public/ non-religious based hospital for a few years now. If these jokers have this basic information wrong, just what else does the poor offended lady have wrong. She thought she was in a Catholic hospital. Bwaahaahaaa!

Bob Loblaw

YEAH! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Veritas

Maybe you should advise the CEO as he thinks it's a Catholic hospital. He admits they need to follow the Bishop's directives.

catnip

The hospital, building, land, and staff are full on hired or owned by Mayo Healthcare. Accreditations and pay are through Mayo. The CEO was interviewed and hired by Mayo. Although the Catholic Church is involved in “pastoral care”. If the bishop pulled all contact tomorrow, there would be no effect on the medical functions of the clinic and hospital. Medical personal will face are more legal ramifications if they provide/ or withhold medical care by theological beliefs. They therefore include information and services and get a have a family that works for the church disapproving. This may be resolved best but having the bishop provide ‘pastoral care” in the church and the doctors provide medical care in the hospital. There is no “catholic’ medicine there is medicine. Empirically derived treatment and care plans that supply the best medical care. If an option or treatment is against your belief refuse it. Many faiths do this each day at Mayo.

catnip

The CEO of Mayo-La Crosse is hired and paid by Mayo. If the bishop huffs off tomorrow, he will still be at work and paid by Mayo. This arrange allows the church to be at the hospital unless the church choses to leave. If the church leaves the hospital and staff remain.

Charles in Charge

Thank you Bishop for throwing down the gauntlet and letting Franciscan know that violating their religious directives is going to cost them.

Mr Anderson

Oh, you just want to "save" the children now so you can molest them later.

catnip

So the punch line is it is NOT a Catholic hospital. NOT the land, NOT the Building, NOT the staff. When Mayo bought it became Mayo La Crosse. Yes, the name stayed but it is not a Catholic run, managed or overseen facility . It is a just plain public hospital. The bishop can pull the name , and welcome to it. But it is like selling a car. When you do you no longer have any say in who rides in or where it goes. If this is an example of the understanding of the Arvidsons I have to wonder if the rest of their story is just as factually correct. May be this is why they are protesting rather than seeing the really have nothing.

Charles in Charge

That's NOT at all true legally speaking. It is a Catholic hospital managed by Mayo. They knew the rules when they bought into the deal.

Faust

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
Bertrand Russell

Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.
Bertrand Russell

descheneaux

I fear these quotes, while certainly apt here, will fall on deaf ears. Fear and lack worldliness, not to mention education, usually form the foundation of black/white views.

tisme

Section 4:

Five-3: Now that I am at my new health-system, misdiagnoses and diagnoses that were missed altogether at Mayo Clinic Health System – Franciscan Healthcare have been found and I am FINALLY receiving the correct treatments for the correct diagnoses. Nevertheless, many consequences that occurred due to those misdiagnoses and missed diagnoses are permanent and I will have to suffer all of the effects the REST OF MY LIFE!

Five-4: Not ALL priests are pedophiles and not ALL pedophiles are priests. I KNOW this because the MANY that abused me as a child, with the abusers being of BOTH genders, were NOT priests and were NOT Catholic. So, commenter “7”, why do you go on and on about pedophiliac priests when that has absolutely NOTHING to do with paleontologists?

That’s enough from me, for now. Anyone that wants to call me names and/or slam me in any way, feel free to do so. This is, after all, the U.S.A and our government hasn’t fully destroyed our Constitution – yet.

7

Hiding sex offenders in the Catholic Church is a threat to children and other vulnerable people (the very people they are concerned about protecting). When a powerful institution like the Catholic Church uses its resources to protect sex offenders it is gross hypocrisy. It is an obvious violation of their own teaching. Arrogant, self-righteous people need reminding that they are “sinners“ too. Reminding them is for their own benefit, however, they often fail to see it.

tisme

Again - not ALL priests are pedophiles and not ALL pedophiles are priests. Can you wrap that around your head? I'll add a bit more - not ONLY the Catholic Church hides pedophiles - I CAN attest to that. Hiding sex offenders ANYWHERE is a threat to children and others. We hear, for the most part, only about the priests because they make good copy for the media - sensationalism is what sells. And - arrogance KNOWS arrogance; the self-righteous KNOW the self-righteous; hypocrites KNOW hypocrites.

7

I never said they ALL were. The point is we don't know who is and who is not because the bishops have chosen to protect them over the victims and the public.

tisme

Section 3:

Five-2: The MAIN core of ALL problems of ANY kind at Mayo Clinic Health System – Franciscan Healthcare in La Crosse, WI, is ADMINISTRATION and the Board of Directors (aka “Leadership) by default. Administration HELPED the traumatizing of me - initially by believing their employees (there was more than one), who had chosen to believe the primary perpetrator, rather than believing me – the victim. The CORE of Mayo Clinic Health System – Franciscan Healthcare is the PROBLEM and is what should be changed. They care about revenue, image, power, and control – NOT the actual patients. I know THIS because I was tossed out (due to their believing the perpetrator rather than me) while I was on Warfarin for Pulmonary Embolii that left me without immediate healthcare for my blood-clotting level to be monitored. I could very well have hemorrhaged inside and ADMINISTRATION did not care at all! (Yes, I have proof that “I” had been telling the truth and the perpetrator had lied.)

tisme

Five: Since so very many have gone “off topic”, I want to do the same.

Five-1: There is a PLETHORA of healthcare workers at Mayo Clinic Health System – Franciscan Healthcare in La Crosse, WI, that really DO care about the patients. They SHOW this by their words AND their actions. However, there ARE many that do NOT really care. They show THAT by their actions NOT backing up their words – if they even say anything at all! I KNOW this because it happened to me and it did not happen in the OB/GYN department. When I was being traumatized, those who were SUPPOSED to be there to oversee my safety backed away. THAT is what those type of people do – most likely because they are more concerned about keeping their job than about the safety of their patient.

tisme

I will have to break my full comment up into four sections since we are only allowed 1000 characters.

Thus – Section 1:

First: Too many people that are commenting here have obviously gone “off topic”.

Second: Name-calling and the slamming of a person’s religious, or non-religious, beliefs serves no purpose except to agitate, and even hurt, others.

Third: Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN, has paleontologists that do NOT perform abortions for any reason. If Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN, would send THOSE paleontologists to Mayo Clinic Health System – Franciscan Healthcare in La Crosse, WI, instead of the paleontologists that DO perform abortions for whatever reason, the protesting would end. THAT is the MAIN issue in ALL of this.

Fourth: It IS a Catholic health-system and SHOULD follow Catholic rules, doctrines, beliefs, or whatever anyone wants to call them, because it IS Catholic. (No, I am not Catholic.)

Charles in Charge

Thank you for the logical, concise information. Not sure the devil-worshippers here will comprehend any of it though.

WiseGuy

Just because someone does not agree with you, does not mean they worship the devil. Quit being dumb and acting like a child.

Bob Loblaw

Thank you, WiseGuy. The ignorance of some of these people is baffling.

catnip

I never actually met a devil worshiper.

Veritas

I concur that only satanic folks would murder their own offspring.

7

When you are filled with self-righteous pride (which some of your comments would indicate), you basically cooperate with the devil. So, that would make you Charles, a devil-worshiper.

tisme

Please, everyone, reread the "Second" part.

descheneaux

If this were a formal debate, it is rather obvious which side would win. When anger rises to the point of defamatory phrases (killers, murderers, devil worshipers, idiot) things become rather clear. The Catholic Church continues to lose support and membership in most of the developed world and is seeing increases in Africa and doing fairly well in South America. It is rather self-evident that the United States is not fertile ground for Catholicism in its present form. The vast majority of U.S. Catholics of child-bearing age practice birth control and a significant number, if not an outright majority, support a woman's right to choose. These misguided rearguard actions are doomed to failure in the long run.

Choover

Uh, Catholic Dad, I was out there almost two hours, not 15 minutes. I left because I had to go to work.

wave to me next time I'm out there so I can describe you in insulting ways for no reason on the internet.

You were all mad because in the two hours I was there I got hundreds of people waving, giving me a thumbs up, and stopping to thank me for being there. I mean hundreds. I got at least 15 times the love your side got while I was there.

Charles in Charge

I talked with a group of people last night that were there across the street from you and they say you are full of it. You were only there for a brief period like 15 or 20 minutes and no one paid attention to you except the media.

Catholic Dad

God bless the Catholic community for the beautiful demonstration yesterday. Hundreds of wonderfrul Catholics from infants to 95 years old holding signs, praying and defending their hospital from the baby killers that are trying to steal the Catholic identity.

The Arvidsons are doing a great job educating this city full of ne'er do wells that Catholic hospitals are supposed to operate much differently than secular healthcare institutions. Do NOT tolerate abortionists working at OUR Catholic hospital!

catnip

Well let those devoted Catholics run their blessed hospital by their faith BUT pull ALL governmental funding and sever ties with Mayo.

7

If you don't think the hospital is following the ERDs It seems to me you need to picket out at the diocese. This is the bishops job. You need to picket there, where he can see you every day, and demand that he do his job.

catnip

Sad the Arvidson s were un aware it is not a Catholic hospital. Is the rest of their story just as factually correct?

Charles in Charge

Maybe you should get ahold of the CEO because he thinks he runs a Catholic hospital.

"Mayo-Franciscan CEO Dr. Tim Johnson said they remain committed to care in accord with their Catholic mission and legal and medical obligations."

catnip

The pastoral support remains but the funding and accreditation is ALL Mayo Healthcare Inc. Maybe it is time to remove the "pastoral support' and just be on call like the other faiths that attend patients at Mayo La Crosse.

Choover

You all left me out there alone counter protesting today! I was hoping for some help. Jk.

In reality it was great everyone stopping to thank me for being a counter balance to the anti-choice people. I got hundreds more honks, waves and thumbs up than they did the 1.5 hours I was out there. They may have had 50 people out there today, but hundreds were thanking me.

Veritas

That's baloney. I counted 108 people there when I arrived at 4:45 and many more groups came in from different directions that I lost count. One overweight, unshaven dufus was NOT a counter-protest.

But this wasn't an anti-abortion rally, that's the funny thing. You miscreants that simply want to be able to kill your offspring for convenience get hysterical when you think someone is going to take that away from you.

This is a demonstration to enlightened the THOUGHTFUL people of the community that St. Francis is violating their role as a Catholic institution by allowing Dr. Rose and other abortionists to practice there.

Catholic Dad

If you were the heavyset bearded fellow, you were only out there for 15 minutes. Not really very admirable.

What kind of a man runs his wife's detailed personal medical information out to the TV news so he can try to justify his evil acts of killing his own baby. You had hundreds of us praying for your enlightenment and that God would touch your heart and relieve your guilt.

David Lee

Ask yourself and the Arvidsons that question.PS, i don't want your prayers, I want you to stop pollution the city with your signs and stupidity.

Charles in Charge

That pesky freedom of speech thing huh?

Bob Loblaw

Freedom of speech doesn't exist for you to spread misinformation and act like lunatics.

Veritas

Bob Loblaw, free speech rights are for unpopular speech. Popular speech doesn't require protection.

But there was no misinformation. Abortionists are practicing at a Catholic hospital. If standing on a sidewalk holding a sign and/or praying is "lunatic" behavior then you need a new distionary.

7

Karen, I heard you were exhausted from all the protesting. As your friend I want you to know that I am sorry that you had a difficult pregnancy. Many of us prayed for you and Peter during that pregnancy. However, your story has been told and you have gone beyond reasonable bounds to admonish this physician and the hospital. Lashing out at Franciscan Skemp Mayo because this physician may have performed an abortion at another hospital is misguided. Any additional efforts are not only wasted, they are destructive. Have the humility to pack it up and go home. Enjoy the rest of the summer with the kids.

Veritas

You are funny! You are neither Karen's friend, nor a Catholic.

7

Wrong again!

Faust

Veritas...Your responses beg the question... can non-catholics be considered friends with the Arvidsons?

Veritas

You know nothing of the facts. I have spent many hours discussing the case with them and Dr. Rose did indeed urge them to terminate the pregnancy. You don't seen to want to address the real issue due to emotional problems or guilt or whatever. The hospital is CATHOLIC, and there are directives it is supposed to be managed under which they are not following.

catnip

The let the Catholic church support it. When you pay the piper you can call the tune.

Veritas

No one is forcing you to go to a Catholic hospital. You can start your own satan-worshipping "hospital" and you can murder babies, or old people...

The issue here isn't your lust for killing babies because you enjoy fornicating. The issue is St. Francis not abiding by the church's rules.

laxgirl2310

Actually your insurance forces you to go to certain hospitals. FACT

Veritas

laxgirl except for your lord Obama, no one is forcing any particular insurance on you. Pick up the phone and call Blue cross or United if you don't want Mayo health insurance.

catnip

Except it is NOT a Catholic hospital. I guess the last bishop sold it along with so many parochial elementary schools.

laxgirl2310

Well they are the ones posting on their website for ALL to see. They did not once write on their website that Dr. Rose urged them to abort. Those are THEIR words on the website not MINE. I'm going by what I read on their website not some moron who loves saying inappropriate things on a comments section when he or she is supposed to be a person of GOD and all that... LOL BTW I like keeping my legs open cause it feels so good and that's what BIRTH CONTROL is for. freak

catnip

Laxgirl2310 @ what bothers VERITAS (a rather pompous name) is to the left and right at mass are either empty pews or families of 3 children (of course we don't use BC... wink wink). The would is moving by with so little interest in this as well. Women have enjoyed sex for the sake of enthusiastic fun and not reproduction forever..... and individuals like this have boiled about it.

Veritas

You are disgusting, and have no capability for rational thought. I am sorry that virtuous people intimidate you so much. This is a Catholic issue and the Arvidsons are educated, moral people. It really doesn't concern you, but I can see it makes you fear for someone knowing your deviant lifestyle.

laxgirl2310

and once AGAIN you did not comment on anything I said regarding the Arvidson's personal website which they have FAILED to state that Dr. Rose urged them to abort. I obviously made a statement about keeping my legs open to prove a point that every AMERICAN is entitled to decide what to do with their own life. You are judging more than anyone else. You are right on one point that this doesn't concern me however with the protesting that the Arvidson's have started it now concerns everyone that lives in this town.

David Lee

You are lying. Or totally unscrupulous and unethical. IF you spent any time discussing the case with them and the doctor, it is totally wrong to discuss the conversations with the public. But you also appear to be catholic so that would explain the lack of ethics I guess.

Veritas

I never said I discussed anything with the abortionist. Read much?

catnip

Did you ever discuss it is not a Catholic hospital, was sold to the Mayo system.

Charles in Charge

Again you are just plain lying. The CEO Dr. Tim Johnson says they are a Catholic hospital and they have legal and ethical requirements to follow the ERDs. But you know better huh? Idiot.

catnip

They are "pastorally supported" but turned all accreditation and funding as well as medical responsibilities over to MAYO. That is why the CEO was hired through Mayo clinic and is paid by Mayo systems not the church. Although the prime protester with their well publicized but hazy story is hired as the CEO if the Shrine, is he looking to puff up his position?

Veritas

Catnip you seem a bit deranged and incapable of logic. It does not have to be owned by a church to be a Catholic institution.

Veritas

A bunch of nonsense.

catnip

The bible is clear of when abortion is allowed in fact forced upon a woman. Numbers 5:27New International Version (NIV)

27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.

Sounds like induced medical abortion to me.

Bob Loblaw

I was just outside of Mayo. Your protest is weak and your cause is even weaker. Just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean you can force other people to feel that way, too. You know who else forced their beliefs onto others? Hitler.

Veritas

Sounds like you have some emotional problems Bob How many abortions have you paid for?

No one is forcing you heretics to believe anything. Just the law. This is a Catholic institution and is governed ultimately by the local Bishop.

Bob Loblaw

You think I have emotional problems? Meanwhile a woman who had a tough pregnancy has begun a crusade against her physician and the facility that he practices out of once a month because she INFERRED that the provider wanted her to have an abortion. Wahh.

Veritas

You sound like satan spawn.

Bob Loblaw

Veritas, that is precisely the problem with your radical argument. You don't have enough substantive evidence to back up what you're saying so you resort to personal attacks. Stop being a bully. Like I said previously, you can't force others to believe in things just because you do. That's how children behave when they don't get what they want. You're on the wrong side of this one, buddy. Buck up and deal with it.

catnip

Well I don't know Bob's parents so am not sure if he is hellspawn or not but I have met and spoke to Ms. Arvidson. Can say for sure, if she represents the pure and the sure of heavenly eternity, Bob (hellspawn) Loblaw sounds like better company.

laxgirl2310

Veritas you are clueless. You commented on my posts saying this "The facts are that Rose encouraged the Arvidsons to kill their baby." Where on THEIR website of EXPOSEMAYO.COM does it say that Dr. Rose encouraged the Arvidsons to kill their baby? Find that for me and then you can back up your point.

catnip

Unfortunately the local bishop does not drop any money n to running the hospital. Pay the piper then call the song.

Faust

I went by as well. A full one quarter of the protesters are against the anti-choice cause. And there was only one of them.

Nurse mom

I'm not sure that readers understand the underlying problems with Dr. Rose and this situation. Before you make judgements, read the "Expose Mayo" website. After Dr. Rose suggested they end the pregnancy and the Arvidsons chose not to, Dr. Rose's attitude changed and he did not seem to care about the life of their baby. Ultrasounds in LaCrosse showed that she had placenta abruption and Dr. Rose disagreed and totally disregarded Mrs. Arvidson's concerns. When she finally delivered, it was discovered that she indeed had had placenta abruption which was dangerous to the baby and was depriving him of needed nutrients. He could have had a better outcome if he would have been delivered earlier.

laxgirl2310

When did he say the words abortion to the Arvidsons? If you did in fact read their story on Exposemayo.com you will see they stated this: (IN THE 1st PARAGRAPH!)
"Dr. Rose said that if there was confirmed to be a hole in the heart and there was a risk of Down Syndrome, we would have to discuss how to move forward and what we would want to do. It seemed to us that he was suggesting that we should consider an abortion."
ONCE AGAIN key words 'It seemed to us' he did not actually say to them "You should have an abortion" And if you read further you would see that this was NOT her first pregnancy with complications other pregnancies with complications include:
1. history of late abruptions;
2. previous child was born with the placenta;
Also this mother is a diabetic & on her 8th child which causes greater risk.

She is putting herself at risk, the unborn child at risk (which also results in her 8 children to be at risk) by continuing to have children knowing of possible complications.

The word

Catholics = a group people who place more judgment on people than god.

Of all the people that should judge people or make rash statements about others it should not be the Catholics for more reasons than one could list... Wars, killings, little boys...

"Judging a person does not define who they are... It defines who you are"

To be catholic and say that someone is not A TRUE catholic because they don't believe what you want them to believe or think how you want them to think is the biggest judgement and assumption of someone you could make. Get to your little box and tell the man you have sinned.

Veritas

That's one of the most illogical things I've ever heard. Because Catholics choose to behave a certain way according to church doctrine and the bible, we judge more than God?

Of all the people that should judge people or make rash statements about others it should not be liberals for more reasons than I could list... Wars, killings, little boys...

As for judging, the bible does NOT say you should not judge. That is a simple-minded misconception. What it really says is that you shouldn't judge WRONGLY.

To be Catholic and say that someone else is not Catholic because they don't believe what the CHURCH says... is just logical.

The word

Lol wow. It's your response to everyone that thinks differently than you do that promotes the fact that you have no other purpose in life than to fight for your small cause. It's people like you and your views that have drove people away from church. When you have done something for this country greater than yourself then you can talk.

Veritas

What? This issue is about the hospital's Catholic identity. Not about changing the minds of you devil-worshipping miscreants. You arrogant people are trying to make it about yourselves?

Bob Loblaw

Well it's clear that the family that started this movement is trying to change someone's mind by standing out on a street corner spreading misinformation. They have met with the administration of Mayo Clinic who made it clear that they stand by Dr. Rose and will continue to utilize his services. Please tell me how their actions are rational.

The word

Also. Why don't you protest on Memorial Day and Independence Day again. Yea, that sounds logical. Protest you own self views over holidays that support our county as one and those protecting your right to stand on the corner. You have lost a good amount of your support for your little cause.

Veritas

Your rambling is incoherent. What holidays support our county? Are you trying to say it's wrong to demonstrate for a religious issue on a holiday?

7

You judged WRONGLY!

David Lee

There are more ways to kill little boys than war, try a priest sneaking into his bed. That would kill his soul much faster than dying in war. The catholic church is corrupt and of no value in a honorable society.

Jobaba

"Unborn children" - wonderful oxymoron, right down to the adjective-noun construction.

I'm pretty sure you cannot have an unborn child. If it were possible then you would also have an unborn adult. Or senior citizen.

People (after birth) end up dying. So you could also claim to have an unborn dead person.

How can we make this more emotional?

Veritas

Way to go Arvidsons! Thank you for being warriors for our faith. I'm sorry you had to go through the experience of having an abortionist "treat" you for what the progressives consider a disease of being pregnant.

This is precisely why we have Catholic hospitals, so that evil isn't part of the healthcare experience. I will be out there with you today protesting Dr. Rose and the other abortionists St. Francis has aligned themselves with.

catnip

Then Catholic hospitals need to be supported by Catholics, get your hand out of the public pocked . When you pay for yourself you can do anything/ or forbid anything you want.

Veritas

Who is forcing you to go to a Catholic hospital? You should sue them. You have every right to go to a devil-worshipping facility where you can do that stuff.

catnip

Dude, what's with you and all the devil worship? Too much Ozzy? Really I have never actually met anyone who actually worships a devil.

nels

Maybe the bishop should drop their mayo affiliation and see how long he can keep the doors open

Veritas

That is the "nuclear option". He clearly says that he can do that. He is a little more diplomatic than I would like him to be, but he knows he weilds that ability.

catnip

So "wield " it now be a pure righteous empty facility for a few families the want their faith to be the base of all medical care given, not just theirs but all others. Of course good luck at getting a top OB/GYN for her unending difficult complicated and EXPENSIVE pregnancies. I imagine she would never want to go to Mayo in Rochester as they do not meet her standard for moral medicine. Good luck with that.

Veritas

So you would rather take the Catholic hospital from us? Who is forcing their opinions on who now? Build your own baby-slaughtering hospital and you will have plenty of customers I bet. Only problem is they are democrats who have no ability to pay I bet.

catnip

Mayo La Crosse is supported, accredited, and handles all medical through Mayo systems. The church gives pastoral support but does none of the work and has none of the responsibility. That s why the hospital CEO is hired and paid through Mayo not a church.

Catholic Dad

It says right in the article Catnip that the CEO admits they are a Catholic hospital and will follow the Bishop's directives. You seem to be hysterical and unable to find a truthful argument for killing your own offspring.

catnip

Not "take " a catholic hospital from "us" but let the "us" be freed to totally own and run their hospital by their faith, no BC, no complete information, what ever you like. Just also free you from the reciprocity of Mayo clinic (they become out of network providers). And no dirty government money, or filthy non- catholic insurance money. Have real ownership of the hospital.

7

USMC Doc - You presume I'm not Catholic on what basis?

I am Catholic and I have used the good services of the obstetricians at Franciscan Skemp Mayo for all of my pregnancies and the births of all of my children. I am grateful for their professionalism and the expertise in which they do their job. Some of the physicians that treated me may have been trained in how to perform an abortion or may have performed one at another hospital and they have undoubtedly prescribed birth control. This did not prevent them from providing me excellent care.

Two of my child births were complicated and required emergency care to immediately take care of my health and the life of my child. I will be forever grateful to the hospital, its staff, and the expert physicians that provided me care. They are responsible for the healthy births of ALL of my children.

Jeffersonian

You most certainly are NOT Catholic in Good Standing if you don't abide by church doctrine. If you condone or participate in intrinsic evils such as abortion or birth control you cannot in good faith present yourself for sacraments (Communion/confession).

7

I do not condone abortion, nor do I use birth control. And, I regularly present myself for sacraments.

Faust

7 - It's too late. You've been judged not worthy (by the 'virtuous') of the Catholic heaven and are most likely spending eternity in a fiery hole. You'll have plenty of company.

Faust

Alternatively, you may still be eligible to go to any number of protestant or non-catholic heavens (although they probably don't have quite as much gold laying around in the streets). You'll have to check with the guidelines as they tend to vary.

In the meanwhile, may I suggest a nice weekend at a water park in the Dells?

7

Faust - Thanks for your support. I got a chuckle out of them deciding to “vote” whether I was Catholic or not. If I wanted to I could have purchased a brick with my name on it and had it laid down on diocesan property. If I donated over a million I’m sure the bishop would have plated it in gold! (or at least spray painted it.).

7

Faust - Thanks for your support. I got a chuckle out of them deciding to “vote” whether I was Catholic or not.

If I wanted to I could have purchased a brick with my name on it and had it laid down on diocesan property. If I donated over a million I’m sure the bishop would have plated it in gold! (or at least spray painted it.)

Faust

Not a problem. Some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

Veritas

To receive the Communion without being in a state of grace profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.

By condoning the violation of the ERDs you are participating in a mortal sin (participating in an abortion)

Faust

State of grace Veritas? Please define that while not being in a state of denial.

7

Veritas - Using your own reasoning you must condone the sexual abuse of minors and the other sexual crimes that have been committed by clergy in the Catholic Church.

Have you not received the services (sacraments) in the Catholic Church by priests/ bishops who do not follow church doctrine? Of course you have. In case you have been asleep, let me get you up to speed. Some priests have committed sexual crimes and bishops have covered up these crimes and protected the perpetrators. Perpetrators have been permitted to remain employed by the Catholic Church and perform the sacraments that you receive.

You most likely have received services from a priest or bishop that does not follow church doctrine in some regard. So, (using your reasoning) your use of these services, makes you a participant and that would put you in the state of mortal sin.

Sal Yodada

That is one of the main reasons why I left the Catholic church 20+ years ago. It is a conditional religion in that you can't participate in it if you don't abide with some of the rules they have made up as they go. How un-Christian is that?

Not saying that some are not good rules, but it smacks of ignorance when the Church cites infallibility and tradition when dogmatically refusing to change or bend some of the precepts that did not exist in the time of Christ. Catholics are beginning to find out with the new Pope that American Catholicism is a breed all of it's own.

From my point of view I have realized that you can be a lousy Christian, but still be a good Catholic. I have chosen the reverse: I may be a lousy Catholic, but I am a good Christian. I turn the other cheek and treat my neighbors as I want to be treated. Libertarianism and pure Chritianity have a lot in common.

I like my Christianity like I like my Constitution: as unadulterated as practical from the original!

Veritas

So you couldn't abide by church doctrine so you went and created your own interpretation of Christianity that allows you to sin as you wish? Interesting. I wouldn't bet my eternity on that barstool thinking.

Faust

Veritas you condemn others for changing their religious views while denying the history of your own church. Look up "counter reformation" when you get an opportunity.

Sal Yodada

Veritas, like I stated...I follow the teachings of Christ as written in the bible.

I don't believe in doctrine that was made up by More, Aquinas, or some pope that came along and changed something he didn't like. For that same reason I didn't "convert" to one of the protestant religions for the same reasons.

Speaking of barstools, I saw plenty of hung over Catholics on Sunday or fooled around on their wives, but were seen as pillars of the community and "good Catholics". They did very little to change their ways. Their hypocrisy spoke volumes to me when I was a "sinner" when I met a single mother and was told by a devout Catholic such as yourself told me I was "living in sin". I chose the better path, turned my other cheek on her and haven't looked back since.

We shall see on judgement day who is right and who is wrong when we find out if you are judged on actions or beliefs! Caste thy stone on thee whilst ye remove the plank from thy eye.

Veritas

If we are voting, I also concur that you are not really "Catholic".

WiseGuy

Perhaps I go to a ‘Catholic Hospital’ because it is where my insurance allows me to go. OR, it is where a specialty doctor I was recommended to, practices. OR a provider that I prefer practices here, who is ::gasp:: also not Catholic like myself. I am not sure if it is because of just these possible reasons, but I’d like to know all options available for my health care, even if I don’t like what they have to say.

Jeffersonian

Maybe you should find a hedonistic institution to provide your healthcare?

WiseGuy

Nope. I like Mayo Clincic.

I was raised Catholic, I was speaking hypothetically. I can almost guarantee that 80% of the patients at Mayo Clinic are not Devote Catholics, and they come to Mayo Clinic for other reasons (some possibilities I already stated), and would prefer unbiased care.

I understand a Catholic Hospital has to follow the “U.S. bishops’ Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Healthcare Services, which ban abortion services and counseling” but Dr. Rose did not and does not practice abortion services here nor did he provide counseling to this family (according to their ‘exposemayo’ website). What he does elsewhere and on his own time are not up for judgment by anyone other than The Almighty, you Devote Catholics should know that!

Veritas

Your reading comprehension is pretty weak. He indeed counseled them to end the pregnancy (have an abortion for those of you that attended government schools).

WiseGuy

My reading comprehension is just fine; let us take a look at your comprehension….

This is taken directly from their ‘exposemayo’ website….
“It seemed to us that he was suggesting that we should consider an abortion. We told him that, regardless of what may be wrong, we would definitely have the baby.
Dr. Rose followed-up our appointment by sending us a clinical article that spoke about fetal chromosomal abnormalities and Down syndrome. The article mentioned that “[t]ermination of affected pregnancies…plays a role.” It seemed to us that he thought that because we already had a large family, we should not be having another child, and he was suggesting that we should have an abortion.”
Do you notice the words ‘seemed’ used two different times? They never stated that he ‘told’ them to have one. Hmmmm….

catnip

Mr. Arvidsons is the CEO of the shrine (which has not been a big money maker as old bishop Burk the former prince of the church in all its wealth and glitz now in a small side office, said it would be). Alvidson and his wife seem to be looking for a new cause to puff up his standing/ position. They don't quite have evidence to sue and take a legal tract so the put out a sob story blog, where frankly you can say any thing true or BS.

Jeffersonian

I applaud the Arvidsons for holding the nuns accountable for this obvious violation of church directives.

Sal Yodada

35 feet rule! 35 feet rule! ...Oh wait, those anti-abortionists can stick those grotesque images in our faces at point blank range now! Yay for us!

Just don't be surprised if I snatch one from you and feed it to you for lunch if you force my kids to look at one ever again!

David Lee

You won't do it because your like most all conservatives. All talk and bs. you can thank the republicans and conservatives for the ruling, so quit complaining.

Sal Yodada

At least I am not like you passive aggressive liberals...all show and no action!

What have all of your singing, tambourines, and tom-tom tapping gotten you in Madison with Walker? 49% … you need a majority to win.

What are you going to do for four more years....sing even louder? LOL!

David Lee

Nothing original? Just more regurgitation? You sure are pretty weak, both morally and intellectually i guess. Bond money? How much of your SSI do you need for bond money? May enough for Gold Bond diaper powder but that's about all.

Sal Yodada

You are the one accusing me of being a conservative...that makes me one of the 53% that works for a living...and pays taxes. I am a giver, not a taker. Sorry.

Sal Yodada

Morally weak? I am not the one that believes it is A-OK to terminate a pregnancy out of convenience as a matter of a "woman's right to choose."

Perhaps you are the one that is intellectually weak if you can't see through your own liberal propaganda.

USMC Doc

Come try it Yoda. Keyboard commando. It's called free speech, and it's a protected right.

Sal Yodada

I'd probably make you pee your pants. I carry bond money on my person for just such an event. I would see you a half hour after arrest. I would honk my horn and wave on my way home. ;)

Jeffersonian

And SCOTUS ruled 9 to zero that free speech trumps restrictions around abortion clinics.

I bet you are a little old lady. Come out this afternoon and say something about my sign. :-)

Sal Yodada

You wouldn't hit a little old lady with glasses on would you?

....because I can take them off if you would like.

Sal Yodada

I see I struck a nerve. LOL!

I wasn't referring to a standard protest sign, rather the ones with photos of aborted fetuses with the crushed heads. Trust me I have had to endure aggressive protesters shoving them in people's faces. If my kids are with I will make good on that promise. I am not afraid to go to jail for it either. ;)

I am pro-life (as opposed to anti-abortion) but I am libertarian so you can believe what you want. I am not going to debate as to whether it is right or wrong. Roe v. Wade governs the law of the land.

Veritas

You are willing to get locked in a cage to keep your children from seeing what really goes on in an abortion? You are nuts.

Sal Yodada

No, I don't believe in abortion and can pass that on to my children without graphic pictorial repesentation fine thank you!

If you condone those tactics, you are just as reprehensible as those that would wontanly discard human life as chattel out of mere convenience.

Sal Yodada

Women have a right to choose what they do with their bodies...and kill unborn children if they don't want them.

You also have a right to choose what you put in your body....think about that one...

Personally I agree that contraceptives should be covered by insurance. It saves me the trouble of buying condoms. I don't like wearing them anyway. I guess if women don't care about getting sexually transmitted infections, I won't have wrap that rascal!

wingdam

http://youtu.be/ahdR6aHQvMQ

BichionFrise

Well I do believe in abortion if there are medical concerns for the Mother or the child is conceived because of rape or incest. Don't hate the Dr. performing the abortion you never know the reasons women have to choose this option!!

Veritas

The Life of the mother or rape/incest are red herrings to keep the door cracked for abortion on demand. Such a tiny percentage of abortions are truly to save the life of the mother or for rape/incest, it's an irrelevant argument.

Faust

Yeah they're red herrings, not actual people. You at least have to be a catholic, or a sperm, egg, zygote, fetus, etc. to be a person. Not an actual human being that needs compassion or understanding.

Veritas

What?

Faust

What's up Veritas? No biblical passage to quote in response to reality? You're a coward hiding behind faith to deal with problems you have no other mental tools to use to to ake sense of this complicated world.

Stay in your in your shell, in your depth, or lack thereof, and leave the complications of reality to the adults.

Faust

"What?"
Exactly Veritas.
You argue that there are not enough abortions due to incest or rape to make that a viable argument for ending a pregnancy. Go sit in front of a pregnant young woman who is already dealing with the trauma of being raped, perhaps by a family member, and forced to carry that fetus to term and deal with the physiological roller coaster stemming from it, and in your best "christian" manner, tell her that she and her situation are irrelevant, and that nothing she has experienced or is about to, matters to those "in a state of grace". Or talk to the mother that has just found out that her baby has half a heart and cannot possibly exist outside of the womb and tell her she's going to 'he77' because she isn't emotionally prepared to watch the newborn die in her arms for lack of oxygen or blood flow. You just haven't lived until you've experienced that my "state of grace, holier than thou" wolf in sheep's clothing.

luvsophie

Why are not they constantly picketing at all the hospitals which actually perform abortions? Why does it matter if it is a catholic hospital or not? Is an aborted fetus any more or less worthy of being picketed on behalf of just because of the hospital where the fetus is at? Where they actually have no choice? Wouldn't their picketing best result at the hospital which performs the most abortions? Otherwise it seems it is more personal than anything and not really about the end game.

USMC Doc

I'll type slowly so you might understand... when a Catholic person goes to a Catholic hospital they expect service according to Catholic doctrine. It's especially nefarious for abortionists to hide in Catholic hospitals.

catnip

Then the Catholic hospital should be supported in full by Rome or by their followers fees. Please the drop Mayo and close or work under your religious beliefs lose all government $$$ so I can transfer to Gunderson. You are not the only game in town, just the one my insurance requires.

Faust

Well said catnip.

Veritas

Huh? Mayo WANTED to be affiliated with St. Francis. Perhaps you should take your medicare or Obamacare on down the road, or actually purchase your insurance/care somewhere more in line with your lack of morals.

catnip

Rather Mayo wanted incorporation or not is irrelevant, it was hardly an unwilling takeover. And they can back out/sever all connections and put their money where their belief is

catnip

To picket far away will not puff up the "cause" in the La Crosse area. Now that Cardinal Burk is out of "power" his megalith that he closed catholic elementary schools to build is not drawing enough money to support a CEO and a horde of children with a sickly wife. Must build a cause to need supporting.

descheneaux

There are troubling questions here.

1. What is the deep insecurity that causes some people to hold black/white views in a world that is constantly in flux?

2. Why do we continue to allow medical decisions to be made on the basis of ideology/faith in this country?

Consider France in comparison, a country with deep Catholic roots. Abortion is legal and birth control is free. New mothers are given long maternity leaves, first class prenatal care, and costs are affordable to all. The end result: A much lower rate of unwanted pregnancies and a much lower abortion rate. Everyone is better off. A common sense approach based on reality, rather than faith and idideology

USMC Doc

It's not troubling at all for Catholics who sponsor hospitals and really started the whole hospital thing, to expect care in line with Catholic doctrine. You devil-worshipers are free to have your evil stuff at your secular facilities, but we expect church doctrine to be followed at St. Francis, or the cross has to come down.

catnip

What's with all the angry believers and "devil" worship. Do you guys all meet and play old Ozzy backward or something. It seems to be an obsession with these guys. Or possibly wistful thinking back to the inquisition of burning any dissent as "devil worshipers" and "heretics". Sure is hard for you guys now without all that influence of course the world is better for it.

Melvin Bizquee

Kudos to the Catholic Church for their expertise about scandals everywhere. Every Catholic altar boy will be a happy camper. To the Catholic priests for their exemplary behavior, more kudos. Gross hypocrisy is a win-win for everybody!

Faust

I am rather curious as to where the Arvidsons plan to go for their next pregnancy? Will they also be ready to blame everyone else but themselves for negligent behavior? They knew the risks involved coming into the previous pregnancy.

USMC Doc

You sir are an idiot. There is nothing "negligent" about having a baby. Are you too dense to understand the issue being Dr. Rose posing as a doctor at a Catholic hospital to carry out murdering of innocent babies?

Faust

I'll take that as a compliment coming from you. Just so you know, the Navy provides medical to the Marines, my guess is you're neither a marine nor a 'Doc'. The Arvidson's don't practice contraception, the wife has diabetes and risks complications with each pregnancy. The doctors have told them they should not have more children. I don't doubt that what they went through was very difficult and I feel bad for them. But the choices they make are theirs to abide.

As far as Dr. Rose posing as a doctor, I'm sure that's something you apparently know all about. Murdering innocent babies? I'll take science over your emotional dogma anyday.

Jeffersonian

"Science" doesn't say that abortion doesn't kill a baby. Just the opposite. That's why you maniacs are so afraid of 3D ultrasounds. You don't want to see the human being you want to murder for your convenience.

catnip

I spoke to her recently as she kept flipping the reasons for her outrage. She was extreme high risk, feels birth control is immoral, expects and receives high risk care to include mutable life flights, wants steroids during her pregnancies even when it is too early to make a difference. She has these choices, she can refuse to see Dr. Rose but he was the doctor that pulled my pregnancy through. Yes, he laid out ALL options and risks. He then gave us the best care ever. I accept she may refuse his care because of moral disagreements, I chose not to. She does not have the rights to limit or design my medical care.

catnip

The bible is clear of when abortion is allowed in fact forced upon a woman. Numbers 5:27New International Version (NIV)

27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.

Sounds like induced medical abortion to me.

Veritas

Catnip:
[quote]"She does not have the rights to limit or design my medical care."[/quote]
You are completely off your rocker! Arvidsons aren't limiting or defining your medical care. The Catholic church can do that ethically, morally and legally (If you had cared to read the article and Bishop's statement).

The Arvidsons are just making sure the nuns, hospital staff, and local Catholics know that the ERDs are currently being violated and if policies don't change, the Bishop is going to be forced to strip St. Francis of their Catholic identity.

HealthCareConsumer

As a woman who uses Mayo-FSH as my healthcare provider, this troubles me. It concerns me that I could be denied access to the most qualified doctor in a particular field because that doctor may (or may not) perform procedures at another facility, in another state that are not condoned by Mayo-FSH. This is not just about abortion. Women with high risk pregnancies who want to seek aggressive care options to promote their own health and the health of their unborn child could be denied access to an expert. I expect my doctor to counsel me on treatment options (regardless of whether those treatment options are available at Mayo-FSH). Let me make informed decisions about the course of my care (and my child's care).

7

As a woman and as a Catholic, I agree.

USMC Doc

You by definition are NOT a Catholic.

WiseGuy

As a Catholic, I personally would not have an abortion. However, unlike the ignorant USMC Doc, I whole heartedly believe every person has the freedom to choose what they want to do with their own lives, kind of like freedom of speech.

Veritas

Wiseguy you are another "cafeteria Catholic", which really makes you not a Catholic at all. You are not "in good standing" with the church and cannot participate in the sacraments.

I believe you are just another progressive liberal claiming to be Catholic to try and undermine the church.

catnip

By many of these angry and virtuous writers the current pope would not be Catholic. What is a RINO pope a PINO?

WiseGuy

Well Veritas… fortunately enough for me, your opinion of whether I am a Catholic or not, does not matter. But I will be sure to tell my Priest your personal opinion; when I meet with him next week regarding my upcoming marriage, which will be held in a Catholic Church – in fact the same Church where I have participated in four other sacraments.

USMC Doc

You have "access" to baby-murdering procedures. You simply have to go to a non-Catholic institution for them.

billbrasky

until the catholic church changes their stance on contraception, it is they who are pro-abortion.

Jeffersonian

That "logic" sorta collapses on itself. Catholics belive in NEITHER contraception nor abortion. Is that too complicated for you?

Faust

Does the Bishop also describe the ongoing cover-ups of sexual molestation by priests 'Scandalous'?

Veritas101

This is very simple. It doesn't matter what your opinion is or what Roe said. Procuring abortions is against the Ethical and Religious Directives of Catholic Hospitals. Mayo-Franciscan Healthcare is not following the ERD’s and it must be corrected immediately.


P.S. Health Care providers have no legal obligation to list termination as an option. Get informed.

Veritas101

....True they have no legal obligation to suggest abortion as an option, but a good doctor let's the patient choose that option for themselves. If the doctor left out an option because he/she doesn't agree with it, how would you feel as a patient? Dr.Rose is a kind person who let's the patient choose what is right for them. If the patient does believe that abortion is the best choice for their family, then what kind of doctor would he be if he didn't let the patient know that was an option. In the end it is the patients choice not a bunch of picketing hipocrites.

Shelby1 - Again, this is simple. If an individual wants to be given the "choice" to kill the child in their womb, then they must go elsewhere. Not a Catholic Entity that abides by the ERD's.

USMC Doc

[quote]"... what kind of doctor would he be if he didn't let the patient know that (abortion) was an option..."[/quote]

He would then be a Catholic doctor.

Faust

"He would then be a Catholic doctor."

Practicing modern medicine with middle ages ideology. No thanks.

Jeffersonian

You progressives are so arrogant with your "enlightened" world view. The church will survive your mess just like it has survived many other hedonistic cultures the past 2,000 years.

Faust

"The church will survive your mess just like it has survived many other hedonistic cultures the past 2,000 years."

No doubt, as long as rubes such as yourself are so willingly swindled of free thought.

catnip

Well into the 1960' Catholic doctrine felt a woman should "labor in pain" to birth. Also would squirt baptismal water into a dying mother so the baby would not go to "limbo" OPPS limbo is no more and poof all the unbaptized babes popped in to heaven . All by a review of doctrine.

7

The kids are probably all out fishing with the local pedophile priest that the parents would trust with their lives.

The Diocese has unofficial statements and official statements! They have what they say they do (policy) and what they really do. When the Arvidsons realize the Catholic Church is run by nothing more than a bunch of sinners like themselves, and their bishop, like most bishops, is unfit for the job…they will go home.

If their mission was to “Expose Mayo,“ and let us know how they feel about the abortion issue they have told their story and accomplished their goal. Their persistence in remaining on the corner stems from their own arrogance and sinful pride. How dare you offend the Arvidsons! They will show you, They will neglect their own children in their quest to get a doctor fired.

USMC Doc

That is idiotic! The Arvidsons are more educated and caring parents than you progressives who would turn your children over to government the you trust with your lives.

Your last "paragraph" is incoherent babbling. Their mission is NOT to get Dr. Rose "fired". Their goal is to have the Catholic hospital sever ties with Rose or other abortionists. Dr. Rose will still be able to murder babies in Rochester or in his basement or wherever. Simple logic seems to be too much for you.

Kronosaurus

I went and read their account of their care with Mayo at http://exposemayo.com/ It sounds like their experience was very very bad. It stems from a huge disagreement about the status of the pregnancy. Many Mayo doctors thought all was okay and she should wait it out and deliver normally at at least 37 weeks and she felt there was a serious problem (abruption) and that the doctors poo-pooed her and some doctors and nurses agreed with her while senior doctors in control of the situation overrode them and ordered her back home.

Interestingly, because an early test indicated abnormalities she was referred literature that included abortion as one option among many. They conclude that her shoddy treatment along with that literature somehow proves they are abortionists as opposed to just lousy doctors. I'm not fan of doctors, but now, in addition to litigation, doctors must fear abortion protests when they mess up. Or, they may just be prepping for litigation.

USMC Doc

It's not just the shoddy treatment and literature that proves Dr. Rose is an abortionist. It's the fact that he murders innocent babies that proves he's an abortionist.

KEM

Why stop at only removing Dr. Rose? The Diocese, Bishop & FSPA should demand completely severing ties with Mayo as they give women the option to chose an abortion at their other non-Catholic facilities. Oh, but then how would "Franciscan Health" stay in busine$$.

Veritas101

This is very simple. It doesn't matter what your opinion is or what Roe said. Procuring abortions is against the Ethical and Religious Directives of Catholic Hospitals. Mayo-Franciscan Healthcare is not following the ERD’s and it must be corrected immediately.


P.S. Health Care providers have no legal obligation to list termination as an option. Get informed.

Shelby1

True they have no legal obligation to suggest abortion as an option, but a good doctor let's the patient choose that option for themselves. If the doctor left out an option because he/she doesn't agree with it, how would you feel as a patient? Dr.Rose is a kind person who let's the patient choose what is right for them. If the patient does believe that abortion is the best choice for their family, then what kind of doctor would he be if he didn't let the patient know that was an option. In the end it is the patients choice not a bunch of picketing hipocrites.

USMC Doc

Dr. Rose murders innocent babies. If you think that qualifies him as "a kind person" then you are deranged. A "good doctor" doesn't toss the bloody remains of an innocent baby into a trash can in the name of medicine.

Bob Loblaw

What world do you live in USMC Doc? You are ignorant and disgusting and you're doing nothing but a disservice to Catholicism.

Choover

I'll be out tomorrow too, only across the street telling then to mind their own business.

USMC Doc

Do you understand that this is a Catholic hospital making it our business? Zoinks! Government education huh? You haven't the ability to comprehend even the simplest logic. Sad.

wakeup

This is why my family will not ever have insurance at Mayo in La Crosse.

Faust

Arvidsons
You do not speak for this community as a whole and I feel it's very pretentious and ignorant that you would presume to do so. Who is raising your children when your wife is out picketing and you're working 12 hour days? I recommend putting your efforts toward securing the healthy futures of your own family before trying to save the souls of everyone else. Your belief structure is not shared by everyone, and this issue is far more complicated than the black and white solution your dogma dictates. I've seen your children out picketing. Do you suppose you're doing them any favors by exposing them to an adult issue that their minds cannot comprehend except in the simplest of terms? Bottom line... believe in whatever you like, but get out of everyone else' private lives. I am tired of trying to explain to my little children what you guys are trying to accomplish on the picket line and the complicated issue of abortion that you're trying to dumb-down to religious law.

Only1Green

To be fair, they never said which community. It could have been La Crosse, the Catholic church, or given the size of their family, their own home. They do have the right to protest even if you or I or anyone disagrees with them. Their right to protest is no different than the rights of the protestors in Madison protesting Walker, again, whether you or I or anyone disagrees with them..

Faust

Parse it as finely as you wish Only1, but these people take no prisoners in their quest for righteousness. They do have the right to protest, as I have the right to protest to their message.

Only1Green

Sorry if you misunderstood but the first part was purely tongue in cheek. As far as your right to protest, I never said you could not.

USMC Doc

The Arvidsons arent speaking for the whole community, where did you get that? They haven't said anything of the sort. They are speaking for us Catholics.

You progressives don't believe that a mother can spend 2 hours a day outside the house? That seems illogical.

My children also demonstrate against the murder of innocent babies. I think about 8 years old they easily grasped the concept. I remember being asked "how could a mother kill her own baby? They must have to be tricked to do such a thing."

The issue of killing innocent human beings isn't complicated. Only in a warped progressive mind is it complicated.

Faust

USMC- Your arguments have nothing to do with logic, only emotion-soaked ideology. Once you admit that to yourself, you can begin your long journey to extricate yourself from the brainwashing you've been victim of and continue to push on your own kids. The morally bankrupt Catholic cabal leadership thanks you for your gullibility... oh and your money.

Jeffersonian

You sound disgruntled. Is it because you aren't able to live a virtuous life and are jealous of those that do?

Faust

Jeffersonian... "Is it because you aren't able to live a virtuous life and are jealous of those that do?"

I'll call it frustrated. Not out of jealously however, I'd call it disappointment. Disappointed in dimwits that can't see that they're being manipulated by a man-made institution designed to control behavior and garner power and fortune for a very select few. It wouldn't bother me except that you have a hard time keeping your radical views out of just about everything that doesn't affect you in meaningful ways. You feel you have to save all the unborn zygotes and fetuses, regardless of the health of the mother or potential child, while brainwashing the heck out of those that are born to the point that they have no choice but to lead robotic, judgmental, 'virtuous' lives.

Jobaba

The question of the day - "Has high water impacted my boating". And then they forget to place the choices, so no one can vote.

Perhaps the question should have been about abortion?

Jobaba

A Bishop, I assume is trained in theology and management. Probably not the medical field. State legislators are mostly businessmen although there could be a Dr. or two in the mix.

Funny how all seem to have a say in the medical field, almost as if they know what they are talking about.

Funny they know all there is to know about abortion, but none will give a yearly exam or diagnose kidney stones.

This gives me a headache. I shall take two aspirin and call my priest in the morning.

luvsophie

I think that's funny

superman

I hope these religous nutcases feel proud of themselves.

Especially at the end of their lives, when they die.... and nothing happens.

meklos

To "Descheneaux": You are very WRONG in your assertion that the Catholic Church, at one time, had no problem with abortion. It has been condemned from the beginning. Check out the "Didache" (Late 1st century "Teaching of the Apostles") and St. Thomas Aquinas. If you have some resource you'd like to present in defense of your position then name it. Don't just throw out "facts" because you would like to believe them to be true.

tower

Actually you are wrong. During the Reformation one of the great debates within the Church was when the soul "quickened" or entered the body. The Church's objection to abortion really only started in the early 1900's. Just like priests not marrying or having kids. It was started in the Dark Ages so inheritances would go to the church and not family members of priests.

capedcrusader

That is correct.

descheneaux

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CB4QFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholicsforchoice.org%2Fdocuments%2FTruthaboutCatholicsandAbortion.pdf&ei=QjW8U92tL63B7AbJgIHYCQ&usg=AFQjCNGgCAJKsPAoW_K4SZnB6lGgvILglw&sig2=LCLiVfjlYvwfCMWG8tcEcg

Shelby1

The family in this article have no clear understanding of how the medical field works. I was a patient of Dr. Rose and I am a current employee of MCHS. It is a doctors job to give you every option when a problem comes up. If there is something wrong with your baby and it appears that the mother is in trouble or the baby may not make it, they have to tell you all of the options, even if that is not the choice that the family wants to hear. I trusted Dr. Rose with the care of my baby and I would do it again in a heart beat. I offten walk at lunch time and these "holy" protesters say nasty comments to us, calling us baby killers and saying we are going to hell for what "we" are doing . It is getting really hard to hold back our words when we go past these people. They just sound so clueless and dumb! What ever happened to only God can judge?

USMC Doc

The family in this article are more educated than you are (Notre Dame jurisdoctorates). If you would actually READ the article and try to comprehend you would know that at a Catholic hospital it is NOT a doctor's "job" to try to talk you into killing your baby.

[quote]"Catholic hospitals must follow the U.S. bishops’ Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Healthcare Services, which ban abortion services and counseling."[/quote]

Faust

I certainly would say the family is more 'indoctrinated' than most. From their own website, the Arvidsons said Dr. Rose never talked to them about 'killing the baby'. That's your messed-up filter tweaking truth to fit your ideological agenda.

laxgirl2310

When did Dr. Rose talk to them about Abortion? If you read the Arvidson's personal journey on THEIR website Exposemayo.com they say "It seemed to us that he was suggesting that we should consider an abortion" Dr. Rose did NOT say to them You should have an aboration. With a woman who has had complications with other preganancies (3.a history of late abruptions; 4.a previous child was born with the placenta AND the fact that this was her 8th child AND she is a diabetic) he gave them an article to read on based on those factors listed above. From Exposemayo: "Dr. Rose followed-up our appointment by sending us a clinical article that spoke about fetal chromosomal abnormalities and Down syndrome. The article mentioned that “[t]ermination of affected pregnancies…plays a role.” It seemed to us that he thought that because we already had a large family, we should not be having another child, and he was suggesting that we should have an abortion." The article mentioned abortion NOT Dr. Rose

Veritas

When an ABORTIONIST tells you that you should end your pregnancy, that means you are being counseled to have an abortion.

meklos

Hmm... LOTS of ill informed comments. The facts are as follows: The Arvidson's ARE the couple this Dr. Rose encouraged to abort their baby. There are no "alleged" happenings here. It did indeed happen. Second: Catholics are involved in healthcare because it is a part of Jesus' command of charity. There would be NO healthcare in many parts of the world if not for Catholic religious orders that, in seeing the need, acquired the necessary traning and established these institutions (as well as other charitable and educational institutions). La Crosse itself benefited greatly from Catholic healthcare ministry in its own early history. We don't "get out" of healthcare just because secular institutions have found it profitable to do business here. The need for healthcare "ministry" continues. Finally: in order to be a Catholic institution it is necessary to operate according to Catholic principles. If you want to be presented with abortion as an option Gundersen is just blocks away

laxgirl2310

From Exposemayo.com: (First paragraph) KEY WORDS 'IT SEEMED TO US'
NOT ONCE DID HE SAY THE WORDS ABORTION TO THIS FAMILY.

"Dr. Rose said that if there was confirmed to be a hole in the heart and there was a risk of Down Syndrome, we would have to discuss how to move forward and what we would want to do. It seemed to us that he was suggesting that we should consider an abortion. We told him that, regardless of what may be wrong, we would definitely have the baby."

THEY PROTEST M-SAT FROM 11-2. PUT YOUR SIGNS AWAY AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR 8 CHILDREN.. BETTER YET GO BACK TO ALASKA!

Shelby1

Love it! Funny how the story changes from "It seemed he suggested" to Dr. Rose being an inhuman monster with a coat hanger.

USMC Doc

Such tolerance...

We are Catholics demonstrating at a Catholic institution, why the anger? (probably guilt from killing your own innocent babies in the past)

laxgirl2310

Is what I said above wrong? You did not comment on what I wrote.. you only made comments about how I MAY be as a person... LOL nice try. Stop judging based on a comment I made about a news article in my hometown. By the way for your own piece of mind I've never killed any innocent babies. :)

Veritas

I think everything you said couldn't be more wrong. The facts are that Rose encouraged the Arvidsons to kill their baby.

Just because you can't keep your knees together and commit evil acts doesn't give you justification to make up your own facts.

You sound jealous of someone else having 8 children. I think you need a shrink or something.

catnip

LAXGIRL@ guess VERITAS wants women's knees together (better for doggy style) while thinking what all the bad bad dirty girls are doing.

heathguru

Exactly.. Gundersen is just a few blocks away. If this couple did not like the care that they received at Mayo then they have MANY OTHER OPTIONS that they can choose from. No where in their article did it say anything about Dr. Rose encouraging abortion. He simply gave them the facts, AS ANY OTHER DOCTOR WOULD HAVE. He was right to give this woman all of the straight facts and options. Leave the man alone for doing HIS JOB. If he wouldn't have given her the options and something would have happened, this crazy woman would have gone and sued him for mistreating her and not giving her every option she could have had. They are not speaking for this community AT ALL.. It's a shame that they are wasting their time protesting because of a man who did his job... These people have a choice-- if they did not like what he had to say, they could have gotten someone different and gone somewhere else.. NO ONE was holding them there hostage. Seriously people-- get a life and go raise your family!

USMC Doc

Dr. Rose was NOT "right".

[quote]"Catholic hospitals must follow the U.S. bishops’ Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Healthcare Services, which ban abortion services and counseling."[/quote]

He is the one that should go down the road to sell his evil services at a non-Catholic institution.

catnip

Catholic hospitals then should be supported by Rome and take no funding from us dirty non- Catholics in the form of government funding or insurance Medicaid/Medicare.

catnip

When the Catholic church starts putting some money toward FS, rather than the other way around I would think they would have more say.

maki

I agree wholeheartedly with the other posters. These people should mind their own business. Who do they think they are butting their noses into such serious decisions that other families have to make. Better to risk the mother's life? Better to bring a human being into the world who will do nothing but suffer? I don't believe for a minute that Jesus would have agreed with these people to harass doctors and make people in difficult circumstances feel worse. If you are really from Alaska, why don't you go back up there? We don't need you meddling in our community.

Cassandra

Whether a doctor performs abortions is a private medical decision between the doctor and the patient who consents to the procedure.

USMC Doc

Not at all true. This is a Catholic hospital.

[quote]Catholic hospitals must follow the U.S. bishops’ Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Healthcare Services, which ban abortion services and counseling.[/quote]

This involves the Bishop directly.

catnip

Let the bishop then support the hospital.

Faust

Catnip, you make too much sense. Indeed dirty, non-catholics are not the preferred customers to MC-SF according to the expert testimony provided by a couple of the elite posters here. But my guess is, they will still admit us as ultimately, dollars beat dogma every time.

Little Mermaid

Thank You Dr.Rose for giving these people all their options just like any MD would do for any disease. Thank you for all the Babies and Mommies you have given your blood sweat and tears to each day and the ending has been wonderful.
Just like every patient that walks through FSHC doors each day these people being high risk may have had to make some scary choices - sad or hear something they didn't like.
The Catholic religion has nothing to do with your baby. You were given options.
MOVE ON!
It is disheartening that as a CHRISTIAN you feel it necessary to wreck another man's career - family. Because he may believe different than you.
YOU do not speak for the community or for Mayo or Dr Rose ' s patients he has saved and served well.
Put the signs down and go home!

USMC Doc

"The Catholic religion has nothing to do with your baby" WRONG. You must have been educated at the hands of the government. St. Francis is a Catholic hospital. They have to abide by the directives of the church.

"Catholic hospitals must follow the U.S. bishops’ Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Healthcare Services, which ban abortion services and counseling."

The demonstrations never said anything about wrecking another man's career (but I would argue that with you later if you like). The Arvidsons simply want St. Francis to sever ties with abortionists like Dr. Rose who comes here 1 day a month to try and drum-up new business for his baby-killing enterprise.

catnip

Except it has been a public mayo facility since the church SOLD it a few years ago.

che avy'a

These protestors drive me nuts. They do NOT speak for the community, and thankfully it looks like the majority of people commenting on this article agree. The dumbest thing about their signs is that they say "Pro-abortion." No one is pro-abortion, meaning everyone should get one (because it's so fun and easy to decide anyway). What sane people are is pro-CHOICE. Make your own decisions and stay out of mine. You don't know what's best for everyone.

Pam K

CHOICE

lacrosseguy

What a bunch of idiots. I don't think the Catholics are in any place to judge. I'm surprised they're not too busy diddling kids to even have time to picket. And don't they understand what a high risk pregnancy means? They really think a mother should die just to avoid the terrible A word? Insanity.

che avy'a

yeah!

logical thinker

Well, facebook indicates that this couple definitely practices what they preach. Seven children, most born when they lived in Alaska. Apparently just moved to La Crosse so you definitely have a nerve to say you are speaking for the community! (Btw, if the Arvidsons are reading this, you should probably privatize your facebook).

USMC Doc

Or maybe they don't have anything to hide...

catnip

If they did not have a public soap box they would be just an average big family and a brittle antsy mom with no pubic glory for all her travails.

Zrae

These folks are presuming a lot. Do they have access to someone's private medical information against HIPPA laws? I find it ironic since Mayo/Franciscan allows for end of life decisions which include "do nothing" to intervene. Parents can make the same decisions for their children. When my newborn died there years ago I asked what my options would have been had we known what was wrong with her could not be "fixed". Options were 1. Aggressive treatment. That meant the poking and prodding so much that she winced and cried whenever she was touched. 2. Give us a room down at the end of the hall to hold her as she died and 3. Take her home to die. So would I have been aborting this little preemie life had I had the knowledge she wouldn't survive and chose 2 or 3? She had life, she drew the biblical breath. That is the difference I see here. If an unborn is just that, not able to draw that breath, what's the difference? There is this heartbreaking term called viability....

catnip

They seemed to want to the days where holy water was squirted into a dying woman to baptize the offspring rather than aborting.

Yojimbo

Why on Earth are religious institutions still involved in health care? This has always seemed like a bad idea to me. Especially with the growing trend of extremism we are seeing in most religions today.

che avy'a

Agree

Faust

For the same reason the church is involved in politics... self preservation and money.

descheneaux

I was born and raised Catholic, French Canadian roots. I have long since matured into a thinking adult. My 7 decades have brought, if not a bit of wisdom, humility and compassion for others. What happens in a doctor's office is none of your business unless you are the patient. Let's call a spade a spade. It is the height of arrogance to think you have the intelligence, let alone the right, to decide morality for others. I am tired of Catholics, in particular, with their track record on women's rights and long history of child sexual abuse, being so presumptuous as to tell others how to act. Shame on you.

Technomom

Agree.

Little Mermaid

Agree

truth_hurts

Agreed 100%.

truth_hurts

Agreed 100%.

RemoteEmployee

Agree

USMC Doc

You seem mighty arrogant to think you have the right to decide how business is done at a Catholic hospital.

Searching

"This community will not tolerate ..." These people need to realize they DO NOT speak for the community. We don't all agree with your philosophy. Health care is a personal choice. You have no right to interfere with others' personal freedoms. Stay home and put your picket signs away.

CBfan11223

Couldn't say it better Searching!!

che avy'a

Agree

truth_hurts

I agree. What I find interesting is that they just moved here and are suddenly the voice of the community? They need to shut up, pack up and go home!

Monteee

"I was born Irish-Catholic. Now, I'm an American. Well, you grow....."

-- George Carlin

HonestAbe

If I were a Catholic today, the last thing I'd be preaching is morals and ethics. You have to lead by example, and that is very poor today.

If you want abortions to be illegal, picket your government, not employees trying to do the right thing by their patients. The all-mighty do-gooders are looking pretty meek to me right now in this situation.

capedcrusader

I agree.

USMC Doc

Hmm. You fail to grasp even the simplest concepts or logic in the article. Never once was it mentioned about the legality of abortion. Catholic doctrine hasn't changed over thousands of years. Killing innocent babies is just morally and ethically wrong. Thanks for the advice on what you'd do if you were Catholic though. Very helpful...

RINO Cowboy

USMC Doc - If you are a physician you understand it might not be so black and white. Standing by and allowing a mother die because of problems with the fetus also isnt too moral or ethical either - http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/irish-catholic-bishops-reveal-ignorance-in-statement-on-death-of-savita-halappanavar/ Then again anything the Catholic Church says is true, eh?

CBfan11223

So, is it ethical and moral to molest small boys? I agree with Honest Abe, picket your government and leave the doctors and nurses (who actually care about their patients) alone and let them do their job.

elocs

The heinous crime of priests molesting children is only the beginning and the evil then continues as priests in leadership knowingly choose to cover up the crime by moving the priest elsewhere. Like providing the spider with flies.

And these are the kind of people who want to set themselves up as the judges of what is ethical and moral?

Also, it too often appears that too many who are anti-abortion have a concern for life that begins at conception and ends at birth.

descheneaux

This is simply untrue. There was a time, and it was not thousands of years ago, when the Catholic church had no issue with abortion. Morality and ethics are not set in stone. They are relative to the culture and to the thinking of the individual/group. To my way of thinking refusing to abort when the mother's life is in danger is immoral. God, if indeed he/she exists and is all-powerful as many insist, is responsible for more abortions than all the rest of us combined. Your views are narrow and bigoted and should hold no sway in the larger community.

tower

Just a side note here USMC. The Marines don't have doc or medics, they belong to the Navy who lends them to the Marines. No matter how hard you wanted to be a Marine, you weren't.

David Lee

Good point, one he can't dispute, so he will ignore your comment because you caught him lying about his identity.

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