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johnnybragatti

Call me back when you"re dead.

Tiny Tim

There's a lot we still don't know about this virus. For those who think lets all just get it and be done, I get it. I can understand that if we're agreeing to flu like symptoms and then we're better. Truth is, we've been finding out covid can also affect blood, clotting, kidneys, central nervous system, etc in new ways we had no idea! The truth is we don't know what all this means yet. The best and brightest minds studying this don't know and we're not getting very good nuanced guidance.

In terms of herd mentality, and just getting it over with, not so fast. If 20-30% of people who get covid wind up recovering just fine but then have heart issues, or life long kidney problems that completely change their lifestyle, and they die a few years due to those separate complications a year later, was it worth it?

I know I certainly don't want to pass those kinds of problems on to my neighbors and family, much less get the thing and be a guinea pig for science myself. We will eventually learn more, but the truth is right now we don't know how long a person who has recovered would be immune for! Think about that. Different strains of flu come around every year, its why we need an annual flu shot (and even that is a gamble because they can't know which strain will thrive). But if people get sick this summer / fall and then they could get a mutated strain again next year, possibly even more harmful, then we'd all essentially be stuck in an endless loop.

Hopefully that isn't the case, but at this point we don't know. The answer needs to come from getting prepared mentally to change behaviors for a long haul - a year or more, and follow through with this new normal until the vaccine arrives. It's possible they may not get it right at first, especially because of the immense pressure to do this faster than we've ever done it. Speed causes errors.

We need to be thinking long term about this folks, and admitting that we still don't know a lot! What we do know points to a pretty severe spread. If you're getting a little numb to all this like many of us are, I don't blame you. People have been frenzied. If you're wondering who to listen to, this is one of the only people who has essentially stuck to the same message all along. He has studied infectious disease for almost 50 years, and he isn't spouting bs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxI9gjrW2i0

He's the first guy who said "hey you can get this thing from breathing the same air of another person in a room". Nobody listened. Now that's exactly what their finding. When indoors, we should all be operating on solid info and that is, despite definitions, when indoors, especially in buildings lacking ventilation and air filtration, this virus is essentially airborne. Staying 6 feet away is a farce. Its better than not doing it, but no magic happens at the 7th foot. It has now been proven that simply exhaling releases airborne particles that can stay in the air for up to 14 minutes or longer. Stopping exhaling is a non starter. If you're talking to someone, all it takes is a 1000 particles to overwhelm your immune system. Be extremely cautious indoors!

There are ways to mitigate this risk, it doesn't mean we have to shut everything down and do irreparable damage to the economy and cause unnecessary job losses! But we do need to operate safely and reconsider all indoor activity to rearrange things in ways this virus spreads slower. Wearing facemasks certainly helps, but the best idea is to limit time indoors as much as possible. Office buildings without windows that open are bad news. Working from home is good.

Bottom line, there is a reason for millions of cases worldwide and it comes down to the fact this thing probably spreads much easier than we were led to believe early on. I tend to come down on the side we do need to open back up officially because businesses cannot sustain indefinite closure, but we do need guidelines.

We also need new normals of how to shop, and we need creative ways to keep our economy and jobs, but in ways that also maximize safety. For example, restaurants could serve people in parking lots like a drive in movie theater. This is what Rudy's does, it is scale able for other places. That should be the new normal for going out to eat until we either know more or have a vaccine. Officials dropped the ball by not implementing this and not creating plans like this, instead assuming business should just stay closed. Drive up and ways that minimize contact needs to happen now!

So yes, open back up, but if each of us doesn't operate personally operate in a way that mitigates risk -- especially indoors, we will almost definitely see widespread cases in our area. This is also a great article that makes a lot of sense. https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

Stay smart and stay healthy La Crosse.

oldhomey

Tiny Tim, you have gifted the rest of us with one of the most sensible and informative commentaries yet to appear on these boards regarding the pandemic. Well done! It could easily be used as an op-ed piece for the paper. Thanks.

DMoney

I agree. I will also point out that your stance on this subject has reversed (conclusion from your agreement with Tim's post). Congratulations.

bytheway

Right now in La Crosse county you have a higher risk of being beaten to death in Menards’s parking lot than of dying from covid. You may think that is a crass statement but it is true. The cold and flu season is over and the covid will quickly pass. The uptick will result from more testing but everything will be just fine.

new2020

"Right now in La Crosse county you have a higher risk of being beaten to death in Menards’s parking lot than of dying from covid." There is still a risk of being beaten to death at Menard's? Why don't they or the police do something about it?

k

Seriously,this won't be over til a vaccine is found or a very good treatment to control it.

oldhomey

bytheway, Las Vegas was built on suckers like you.

DMoney

No, they sure weren't. bytheway is currently 100% correct. Vegas was built on people who were less than 50% "correct"/winners.

Tim Russell

Are our Medical Facilities capable of caring for more cases? Has anyone asked them?

curtis.blanco

Sweden didn't have any lockdowns. But they did have social distancing. Now experts say they are close to what is called herd immunity.

One doesn't have to get a shot to get immunity. To get immunity to any pathogen one merely has to be exposed to it and then live. The people of Sweden most all got ample opportunity to be exposed to this virus in a relatively short time period.

Fortunately most people exposed to this virus hardly feel it. A fever / the chills and diarrhea and perhaps a cough and then if a person has a strong enough immune system, the immune system then kills it off and the person feels fine and has immunity.

What can you do to protect yourself? Build up your immune system. Zinc, vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin D and moderate exercise.

k

So another words who cares about the old people,sick,disabled,not right...try looking up what Norway did if you want to state a good example.

DMoney

Nope. We care very much about them. They ought to stay home and distanced, away from the threat. And the young, healthy, non-disabled ought to stay away from them and not visit. Why is that such a hard concept for so many people to grasp?

new2020

"They ought to stay home and distanced, away from the threat. And the young, healthy, non-disabled ought to stay away from them and not visit. " Didn't the GOP just defeat this idea in the Wisconsin Supreme Court?

Dmoney2

The supreme court didn't do anything from preventing people from choosing to remain isolated. Rightfully so. All they did was make it a choice rather than forced. The way it should be

new2020

Does that mean you think they should be isolated? What if they refuse this?

k

So it's okay to say,older people should not have a life and be stuck doing nothing,because this will never be controlled,because selfish people will not do what science says has to be done to eradicate it.

Whatsgoingonintheworld

Dmoney, I can just guess your education level or lack thereof based on your comments. Are you a medical doctor? No. Do you hold a degree in public health? No. College degree.... well we already know

DMoney

Whatsgoingonintheworld.....please elaborate, what makes you form this conclusion? Because as of right now, your personal attack suggests you have the education level of my 5 year old.

DMoney

Older people CAN go out and about if they want to. Nobody is forcing them to stay home (anymore). Or, they can stay home and take less of a risk. They have the choice. The alternative is forced stay at home. In which case they will be no safer until there is a widely distributed vaccination. That's a year out. If you are asking me to sacrifice a year of my life for any other person against my will--the answer is no. Call me cold hearted. But it's just not logical.

elocs

The United States is not Sweden which is a welfare state where people trust authorities and the government. The population of Sweden is 10 million while the U.S. is 320 million.

Sweden'snursing homes were particularly ravaged by the disease and its coronavirus death rate per million citizens is higher than that of the United States and its coronavirus death toll is considerably higher than its Nordic neighbors, which all enforced measures that were stricter than what Sweden imposed.

Looking for herd immunity in the U.S. where 200 million people will need to be infected and recover from the disease? Well the downside is that 1 million Americans will need to die to accomplish that which I suppose would be ok as long as none of them are you or somebody you love or care for. And you had better hope they find a vaccine and soon.

No, don't look to Sweden for answers to this country's pandemic problems. And placing hope in building up your immune system is a fool's errand.

DMoney

There won't be a vaccine that is mass produced and distributed for many months, probably a year plus. Until that happens, there will be spikes of infection/deaths. It's unavoidable. The only thing we can control now (legally within the confines of the Constitution) is how bad we tank the economy. Why have two disasters instead of one?

oldhomey

You are defiantly, openly, cravenly stupid on this point, aren't you, D? If we have a spike again, it will be much harder the second time to put a lid on it, and you will see far more people falling ill and dying by the end of the year than have done so so far. If you see, and this certainly is not out of the question, half a million people dying. millions getting really sick, over-taxing hospitals as they already have been, cutting off people from healthcare for more usual but deadly sources like cancer and hearrt disease, what in hells bells do you think is going to be the public reaction? Do you think they will willing leave their homes to go to work? Do you think businesses will continue normal or even partial operations? Do you think the stock market will not plunge? Do you think you can stop the economy from tanking by Trumpian fiats? Do you think the economic and pandemic disasters are separable? You, sir, a craven opportunist trying to make your stake at the risk of everybody else's welfare.

DMoney

Ok hot shot, now list the alternative (your suggestion) in horrific detail if we are placed under indefinite and illegal forced lockdown. If you stop short of "the worst economic disaster in the history of mankind resulting in death, war, famine, etc." you are either 1) ignorant 2) insane. Go!

oldhomey

Sweden has police patrolling the streets and buildings, and they are very tough on people ignoring the rules of self-distancing. In the meantime, Sweden doe not know, because nobody does, whether or not exposure to this virus among younger, healthy people is enough to develop immunity, if they still carry the virus and are a danger to at-risk populations, or if there are longer term debilities that come with exposure. It is good there is a nation like Sweden that has the national discipline that it does to take a different tack than the rest of the world. It will help the entire world as we see what happens there. Meanwhile, in nations in Europe and -- especially -- the U.S., which ignored the warnings and did not impose rules until too late, they have been inundated with disease and death from Covid-19. The ignored the epidemiological expertise that is highly developed and available everywhere, and we are paying the consequences. So what happens when the same experts say "don't prematurely open"? We ignore them again. People who react as stupidly to the virus as curtis.balance should be required to spend some time watching over-extended health workers in Covid-19 hospital wards to see if they think this is a trifling, trivial disease.

oldhomey

This is a part of a report on Sweden's response to the pandemic, appearing now in the NYTimes:

Across Sweden, almost 30 percent more people died during the epidemic than is normal during this time of year, an increase similar to that of the United States and far higher than the small increases seen in its neighboring countries. While Sweden is the largest country in Scandinavia, all have strong public health care systems and low health inequality across the population.

“It’s not a very flattering comparison for Sweden, which has such a great public health system,” said Andrew Noymer, a demographer at the University of California at Irvine. “There’s no reason Sweden should be doing worse than Norway, Denmark and Finland.”

takka

To Local Observer. There is no Deep State. I suppose that you might be a QANON supporter based on your post.

LocalObserver

Jen says unite? Unite my backside! This is LIBS vs. CONS! We gotta OWN THE LIBS!!

Monteee

>>>“This is a time we can unite together and we need to remember we are in fight against a virus and not each other.”<<<

A month from now, what will Jen be saying?

elocs

So our positive infection rate is rapidly mounting while Rombalski says, "I think a significant reason we don't have more activity in La Crosse County is because of the date that 'safer at home' took effect".So if 'safer at home' kept us from having greater activity, then why isn't it good enough to keep in place as other counties has done? If our infection rate keeps climbing and results in our first death, what will be said then?And when it comes to it, lives always take precedence over livelihood.  

DMoney

There has always been a price to pay for our freedom. Usually it comes in blood on a battlefield. But it's really no different--lives for freedom. Always has been worth the cost--maybe our society has softened to a point where that no longer is the case?

oldhomey

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for making such cheap, putrid statements, D.

DMoney

Nope. It's true. Ultimately, anything short of forced, ironclad lockdown is a societal acceptance of "lives for freedom". You ought to be ashamed of yourself for being dishonest if you disagree with me.

oldhomey

I can appreciate the pressure that Ms. Rombalski is under in facing this dilemma. I fear, however, this is not a time for half-measures and leaving it up to the public as to how it wants to behave when a disciplined societal response is the only weapon at hand to battle the disease. It is astonishing she is making this decision just when there is an eruption of new cases in the county. However tough it must have been to make the decision she did, if it is the wrong decision, she will have live with the consequences, even if she is not responsible for bad behavior on the part of many in the community.

LocalObserver

Finally, no more masks, nop more social distancing, no more tyranny. We can go back to packing bars, restaurants, and churches without the threat of the big brother/ Deep State infringing on our God-given liberties!

Whatsgoingonintheworld

I’m assuming you are one of those crazed protests. Yikes.

oldhomey

Shouldn't big brother be spelled in caps, as in Big Brother, Local?

k

Hope you don't have any older people in your family or young children,hope you don't have any physical issues like heart problems or diabetes,hope you remember that what you do can make others sick!

LocalObserver

Please adjust your sarcasm detector.

oldhomey

Mine was on, Local. I think Whatsgoing needs to inject a bit more absurdism into his posts for most to pick up on his sarcasm. He deadpans a bit too far.

DMoney

I have young children and multiple living grandparents. I could infect and kill them. The odds are astronomically low. Like I'm talking same levels of dying from a freak accident. That doesn't stop me from living life--why would this?

k

Well,how will you feel if you do infect one of them and they die.

Whatsgoingonintheworld

Again Dmoney with you: natural selection

DMoney

Whatsgoingon...I read your comment history. Everything remotely recent is either a personal attacking making juvenile/petty statements or some cheap liberal cliche that blindly and ignorantly attacks a group of people you don't know. You add nothing to anything. Just like a trollish amoeba floating around the comment section. Either contribute or crawl back into a hole please.

DMoney

K, how do you think I would feel? Aside from the tragedy, I would think about how radically, insanely unlucky I was. Because as of now, approximatley .00006% of the population of WI has died from coronavirus. In our county, 0% have died. Again, the odds of that happening right now are unfathomably, astronomically low. Now, if rates spike in our area or areas where I take my kids to the point where we approach .001% of the population, or somehwere that is simply just "extremely rare", I'll adjust my lifestyle and eliminate that risk. But right now, risk of death is essentially zero. So I'm not worried in the least.

capedcrusader

Phony troll.

DMoney

You used to have such moderate, witty responses. There were several times you almost changed my views on a subject. What happened? Disappointing.

Katie9

I'm afraid that La Crosse County Public Health has lost a great deal of credibility with me by making this irresponsible and quite likely life-threatening decision not to uphold "safer at home".

k

Same here,I now feel much less safe.

DMoney

Your feelings of being less safe somehow supersede my previous feelings of feeling less free? Explain how that makes sense.

k

It's been what almost 2 months..poor person having to let others stay safe,so they don't have to give up their freedom to breathe.

DMoney

I'm not forcing anyone to leave the safety of their own home. That's the concept you are forgetting. Nobody is forced to interact with others right now. I know people who literally haven't left home in 2 months. Every grocery delivered, etc. They are choosing extreme safety. Good for them. Just don't tell someone to force me to do the same. Looks like the highest law in the land agrees with me.

DMoney

To uphold the safer at home would be in direct opposition to the supreme court's ruling that the order is unconstitutional. The constitution of the state is what defines what the government can and can't do. You support the government doing what it's not legally able to do? You really want to open up that can of worms? Once the lid is off, it's not going back on.

oldhomey

In times of national emergency, D, the federal government cannot only take extraordinary actions to ensure the safety and well-being of its people, it is imperative that it do it. You claim to be an astute student of American history. Let me share with you an extract of something I read yesterday:

"The great majority of people understand that limitations that would normally be intolerable are justifiable in an emergency. No one, after all, objects to curfews and National Guard deployments in cities wrecked by hurricanes, floods or earthquakes.

"During World War II, Americans accepted government-imposed rationing of food, coffee, rubber and gasoline. They accepted the president’s authority to seize factories where strikes impeded production. Washington dictated wages and prices.

"Millions of men were drafted and sent into harm’s way. Liberty was curtailed for years in order to protect the nation and its people from foreign foes. Some of the infringements were unwarranted, notably the mass internment of Japanese Americans. But most were necessary.

"Today, the enemy is within our borders, and it poses a lethal danger to every American. So there is an urgent need for temporary restrictions on what we can do. That way, the maximum number of people can survive to enjoy the freedoms they will regain once the pandemic subsides.

"The protesters pretend that the threat is minimal, or that the whole crisis is a plot to turn America into a giant gulag. (One [protest] sign: 'This is a dry run for communism.') They insist they should be free to make their own choices on matters that affect their health.

"There are deep flaws in that line of thinking. First, it ignores the danger to innocent people from those who get infected from selfish actions — congregating with large numbers of people, refusing to wear masks and shunning social distancing. The right to drink, which risks one’s own health, does not confer a right to drive drunk, which risks the lives of others."

There was more, but I realize your mind is too closed to think otherwise, anyway.

DMoney

Nope, I get all that. What does it tell you that we are accepting of the other extreme government measures through history but not of this one? Doesn't mean anything to you, does it?

Whatsgoingonintheworld

The next couple of weeks are going to be very scary.

allcav

Only if you've been scared up to now. If you are a rational, critical thinker, you shouldn't be frightened.

Whatsgoingonintheworld

Perhaps you should educate yourself and read Dr.Fauci’s statement about reopening too early.

DMoney

That's a blanket statement that applies mostly to heavily populated areas and to a broad range of people with IQ's ranging from extremely low to extremely high. People who approach this with caution, care, consideration and consistency will be just fine. To lump everyone into the same basket is foolish and tyrannical.

oldhomey

allcav, you have seen too many John Wayne movies. Talk to real heroes. They know if you are not scared when facing danger, you are not going to be a reliable and useful ally in the fight.

DMoney

Your analogy crumbles when one considers that said heroes still march towards the sound of the guns. Not run the other direction and hide.

oldhomey

Brilliant, D. Now move your lips while re-reading my 4:22pm post and tell me how your response refutes what I said.

k

Read about the Spanish flu,we should learn from History,now I am afraid it is going to repeat itself.

DMoney

Load up on provisions and stay home for the next month. You'll be perfectly safe from Covid-19 and will have nothing to worry about.

k

You stay home,do your part to end this epidemic,how many people in the world have to die before people like you stop being selfish.

DMoney

No way. I've weighed out the risks and I'm not wasting my life on the extraordinarily rare chance of contracting and dying from a virus. Not while living in a small county in a small state. Not when I have the ability to use logic, preparedness, caution to make the odds even less of getting sick. Not when I only have a very limited amount of time on this Earth and each day is one less day here. Nope!

DMoney

And guess what? If/when those odds change and the risk increases...I have the RIGHT and the ABILITY to change my mind! It's called being flexible.

Whatsgoingonintheworld

Dmoney when I read any of you comments I think two words: natural selection.

DMoney

Hey, I'm just glad your able to manage to read.

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