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President Donald Trump’s immigration agenda has always been considered exclusionary and prejudiced by progressives; now they consider it tainted by mass murder.

The El Paso massacre, carried out by a white nationalist waging a lunatic war against Hispanic immigration, is being used as a bludgeon against Trump and immigration restriction more broadly.

After years spent trying to rule immigration restriction out of bounds, the left is doubling down on ruling immigration restriction out of bounds.

Rich Lowry mug

Rich Lowry

It can’t be that the only reason for protecting the border, rejecting bogus asylum-seekers, reorienting the legal immigration system toward skills rather than family unification and reducing overall numbers is rank hatred bordering on homicidal malice.

It can’t be that the only choice is between extremely latitudinarian policies that allow asylum-seekers into the country, often never to be seen again, or mass murder.

It can’t be that the only respectable position on immigration, safe for the general public, is whatever the Democrats’ center of gravity on the issue is at any given time (always in flux and always moving left).

First, let’s stipulate that Trump’s words on immigration often are crude and inflammatory. Yet nothing he’s ever said could possibly justify indiscriminately shooting people. Trump is not a terrorist, a supporter of terrorism or an enabler of terrorism.

The El Paso shooter’s apparent manifesto overlaps with some of Trump’s rhetoric, but what defines the document is its apocalyptic argument that slaughter is the way “to reclaim” the country.

The gulf between that view and Trump’s — that Congress should build a wall and change some highly technical asylum rules — is vast. It is the difference between justifying criminality and advocating legislation, between quitting on America and calling for policies to solve one of its problems.

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Much is made of Trump’s use of the word “invasion,” which also features in the manifesto. This is a loaded term best avoided. It speaks to a hostile intent among immigrants who, by and large, come here to improve their lives.

But, again, the impulse to gun down these supposed invaders shopping at Walmart and the impulse to exclude them from entry, or quickly and safely return them home once here, don’t exist in the same moral universe.

For all that the language police profess to care deeply about words, they aren’t very careful about rendering Trump’s. No one notes that in his Florida rally where a rallygoer notoriously yelled “shoot them” and Trump shook his head, smiled and said “only in the Panhandle,” the president was in the midst of saying of border agents, “Don’t forget, we don’t let them, and we can’t let them, use weapons.”

The discrediting of views that show up in the manifesto only works one way. The shooter expresses a fear of automation and support for the universal basic income. Should we hold that against Andrew Yang? The shooter fears we’re on the verge of an environmental disaster. Should Jay Inslee tone it down?

When a member of antifa was shot dead by police while attacking an Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility in Washington state, Democrats weren’t made to answer for their harsh attacks on immigration enforcement.

It’s even a count against Trump that the shooter, too, says that Democrats favor “open borders.” If it’s going to be unacceptable to use the term “open borders” of a party that is getting closer and closer to embracing a policy of open borders, we might as well shut down the immigration debate now.

Which is, of course, part of the point. What much of the left won’t acknowledge is that restrictionists have a sincere belief that secure borders and a reformed legal immigration system would be better for our laws, our economy and our cultural cohesion.

If Trump is a flawed tribune for this point of view, he’s not culpable of murder, either. The charge that he somehow is is yet another symptom of our rapidly degrading public debate rather than a call to elevate it.

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Syndicated columnist Rich Lowry can be reached at comments.lowry@nationalreview.com.

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(50) comments

oldhomey

D, I know you are a very busy man, so I am sure you simply didn't see this post from me in which I made a small request of you. Here is hoping you see it with a fresh posting:



oldhomey Aug 14, 2019 5:31pm



Well since you have been so busy on a daily basis, it should be no problem at all for you to spend ten minutes or so in cutting and pasting some of the "self-proclamations of the many on the left that they are tolerant, intelligent, forward-thinking, accepting." These empty boasts must be all over the boards, including the ones on here today. Just gather half a dozen of them or so, to show us what you are talking about. Sorry that I have been so inattentive and had not realized you were doing this all along. For some reason, I don't recall you ever pointing out any of these silly boasts by liberal posters. Unfortunately, I didn't save the boasts of a noted right-wing poster on these boards that he has read 5,000 books on the history of WWII and knows more about the war than anybody else on these boards. Nor did I save his boast that he knows more about geopolitics than anybody else on these boards. Do you recall who said that?

oldhomey

I guess that D, the paragon of truth and always having his facts sourced has been caught in telling something less than true after saying it with no evidence whatsoever to back up what he said. I wish, however, he would tell the ret of us who it was that claimed he has literally or figuratively (can't make up his mind which it was) has read 5,000 books on the history of WWII and thus knows more about than anybody else on these boards. And who was it who claims he knows more about geopolitics than anybody else commenting here?

Climatehoax

I just can’t figure out where the hate and intolerance comes from in our country, does anyone have a clue?



MSNBC guest tells people not to 'negotiate' with Trump supporters: 'You destroy them'

crank

"Dmoney you are certifiably the most obtuse and ridiculous person I have ever dealt with. "

Dmoney, it seems a pattern with these guys that when one expresses an opinion or a belief then defends that position intelligently in the face of dissenting opinions/beliefs from liberals, it isn't long before they begin hurling insults.

DMoney

Isn't long? It's immediate. But I don't mind that. What makes me sick/crazy is the hypocrisy. It's the self-proclamation of many on the left that they are tolerant, intelligent, forward-thinking, accepting. I could copy/paste examples of this "acceptance" all day, every day taken right from examples on this site. It's pathetic.

oldhomey

Well, D, could I offer a suggestion here? Why don't you start pointing out this horrible hypocrisy? You could do it by cutting and pasting all the self-proclamations of the many on the left that they are tolerant, intelligent, forward-thinking, accepting. AAs I have often pointed out, I am often a bit obtuse and miss these things when reading these posts. I don't recall anybody making outlandish claims like that, except for one guy who claims he has read 5,000 history books on WWII and knows more about it that anybody else on these boards, while also patting himself on the bakc for knowing more about geopolitics than anybody else on these boards. You seem to be an expert on hypocrisy. You could do some good and teach the rest of us about it. It is SO refreshing to see that the champion of free speech and expression of opinions has your back on this, D, that guy called crank or HolmenPackerFan, I can't remember which.

DMoney

I've literally been doing that almost daily, for months. Where you been? I'll continue to do so, so now you have a chance to pay attention.

oldhomey

Well since you have been so busy on a daily basis, it should be no problem at all for you to spend ten minutes or so in cutting and pasting some of the "self-proclamations of the many on the left that they are tolerant, intelligent, forward-thinking, accepting." These empty boasts must be all over the boards, including the ones on here today. Just gather half a dozen of them or so, to show us what you are talking about. Sorry that I have been so inattentive and had not realized you were doing this all along. For some reason, I don't recall you ever pointing out any of these silly boasts by liberal posters. Unfortunately, I didn't save the boasts of a noted right-wing poster on these boards that he has read 5,000 books on the history of WWII and knows more about the war than anybody else on these boards. Nor did I save his boast that he knows more about geopolitics than anybody else on these boards. Do you recall who said that?

martian2

oh really crank head. Hurling insults is what your pal veteran/rickyboy, hoaxer, do on a daily basis. Hurling insults after they have been taken to the woodshed for false and misleading posts. And you crank are the king of kings when it comes to spreading rumors and divisiveness and all out lies. And you think other people should bow to your opinions instead of countering them with facts. Yes facts and crank just don't mix. You've been caught in too many lies to have any credibility.

crank

Gosh! Seems we struck a nerve!

And your insults, divisiveness and the rest should go by without notice, oldhomey? [innocent] More importantly, what do the posts of those other people have to do with me or with DMoney? (...aside from disagreeing with your liberal ideology.) [whistling]

oldhomey

Well, gosh, crank, if I have unfairly insulted you or brazenly caused divisiveness with reckless words, I apologize. I guess I thought I was only calling you (and D, seeing as how you drag him in on this, too) when you were using provable bad information or lies to buttress your arguments. I certainly have no problem with you disagreeing with the liberal ideology, whatever that might be. I find myself disagreeing with liberal cant myself at time.



I feel like if we all can work with knowable, vetted facts and reality, we will not be so far apart in our opinions, healing some of the divisiveness that you seem to support by making false arguments. If I am wrong in my facts, prove it, and I will readily admit my mistakes. I have done that several times on these boards. Have you?



I confess, however, to have being openly insulting to you because of your base, nasty, totally unethical behavior on these boards in the past. You deserve those insults. You tried to bully people by claiming to have tracked down their true identities, their computer IP numbers and the accounts held by their computers. It was a lie, but the effort you made certainly alerted me and, I hope, the whole community of people who use these boards as to your basic lack of character and just what a skunk you are. P.U.

PhysicsIsFun

Yeah Crank I do think that ignoring the bad in a person because you are making a good income right now is pretty ridiculous. I take a long term view on things. There is hope that we can be better. That we as a species don't have to destroy the world. That our leaders can be decent people. That we can treat others with kindness and respect. Trump and the Republican Party are an anathema to all of that. That's not just my opinion. That is the majority opinion in this country and growing everyday. You and the other right wingers on here demonstrate some pretty selfish and outlandish ideas. I am sure that Dennis from Sparta feels the same as I do.

new2Lax

It appears we are zeroing in on the truth with Democrat involvement with Epstein. I think Homey snuck a peek at Fox news to get an update on what the facts are. He said he seemed to remember, when in fact he never seems to remember, clips, articles, statements because his sources rarely have the facts or simply do not acknowledge facts when they are presented and the only place you can get them is pretty much the number one rated cable news outlet Fox.

martian2

I see Trump wants to tighten up LEGAL immigration laws too. Making it harder for those who are not financially well off to come into this country and become legal citizens. If there is a hint that they might in the future need public assistance, its a no go. Of course it is designed to be discriminatory against Latinos and law suits are soon to follow. There are many way to be racist even if skin color is not specifically mentioned.

DMoney

Well, sure, he's the president of the United States. Not president of humanity, central America. His job is to protect and advance the interests of this country. Cherry picking good, stable, contributing people makes sense to do that job well. Your application of racial overtones is, by definition, racist.

oldhomey

"Your application of racial overtones is, by definition, racist." Well, D, I see you are finally beginning to form a more realistic definition of what constants racism beyond simply denigrating the color of somebody's skin. You will be held to this definition from now on.

Climatehoax

You are a racist because treating one race, Hispanic, differently than another race, whites, is racism. Making white tax payers support Hispanic illegals is racist, offering, Medicaid for free, I pay for mine, offering education for free, I pay mine, offering social services for free, I pay taxes for these, using police power, I pay for, to keep them from being deported, allowing and actually encouraging Hispanics to break our laws when whites are held accountable are all ways libs treat one race better than another. You are racist oldone

DMoney

I am referring directly to Martian's application of skin color. I am adhering exactly to the definition of 'racism' in that statement.

martian2

these are people applying for a green card so they can WORK and pay TAXES in this country D and newt. This is a legal means of entry that should be encouraged not restricted. You blab about those lazy Latinos coming here illegally, and yet when they do try to come legally another road block is thrown their way. Immigrants make up a very small percentage of people on public assistance. And tell me how you can see into the future what will happen to someone so therefor you deny them access to work. Doesn't make sense but then again neither does a lot of things that come out of the white house. This is just another way to keep certain groups of ethnicity out. Its called subtle or hidden racism. Something you won't find in the dictionary.

DMoney

That means it's your opinion. Which, in my book, isn't worth the calories I just burned typing this response.

new2Lax

Why not protect the American Taxpayer, to me that should be priority number one or would you prefer all countries send their most neediest here instead of dealing with their issues. Taking caring of your own should come first in any country not shipping them off and avoiding your responsibilities with running the country. We already help these countries financially if that's not enough, let us takeover the country. By your own standards, in which you say this country is racist, you should be against bringing these immigrants to this country, why would you want that.

martian2

fox news newt and D, we are talking about letting people have access to getting a green card to work and pay taxes in this country. It is temporary, it is a certain number allowed and it will go along way to helping American farmers get the help they need to stay solvent, which thanks to the tariff wars by Trump is causing many to go out of business. But you two just go to extremes on your argument which has no basis in reality. I can easily assume you both don't have a clue what I am talking about, you never bothered to inform yourselves.

Climatehoax

Who wants to allow people into the country who may end up a burden on the taxpayers??

Apply for citizenship to any country illegally and tell them you can’t support yourself because ,in your case your dumb and lazy. Let me know how many countries open their arms to you. We taxpayers have been suckered enough by you hot air blowing libs, and it’s not getting any better with the DemoRats running for President. Either you are a millionaire or on welfare, no intelligent working taxpayer wants to support their own family and lifestyle ALONG with deadbeat illegals, and legals who can’t or won’t take responsibility for their own lives.

Don’t give me that krap about how much illegals help our economy. Arcadia free clinic have illegals around the block because it’s FREE, or a pittance, they refuse the employer offered health care because it costs them money, so who’s paying? Who do you think

PhysicsIsFun

Lowry says, "First, let’s stipulate that Trump’s words on immigration often are crude and inflammatory. Yet nothing he’s ever said could possibly justify indiscriminately shooting people. Trump is not a terrorist, a supporter of terrorism or an enabler of terrorism." His words may not justify "indiscriminately shooting people", but they certainly might trigger unstable or hateful individuals into doing just that. Trump is the president. It might be nice if he thought about the impact of the garbage he says on nearly a daily basis. He spews racist nonsense and some people us it as inspiration for horrible acts. Won't it be nice to someday have a thoughtful caring person occupying the office of president? I hope I live to see it.

oldhomey

Physics, I cut and paste the exact same quote from Lowry's column with the intent on making a very similar following comment. You beat me to it. Well said. I am so weary of the Trump enablers, both the pros like Lowry and the amateurs on here like D and crank who tsk tsk that Trump is, indeed, a lout without a clue, but by God he is a darn good president. The company one keeps speaks volumes about the individual.

new2Lax

I wondered about Jeffery Epstein and Bill Clinton making so many trips together, Obama and Farrakhan, Al Sharpton the race baiter. These bothered me a bit because of their open anti-Semitic views but it didn’t seem to bother Democrats at all but now they are worried to death, not because of the actions of Trump but because they know what he is thinking. I guess Republicans thinking the left’s conspiracy to bring down a President is right on the money.

martian2

oh yes the conspiracy nuts are out in full force, and fox news nut newt is leading the way. Gosh newt do you think you can link the pizza gate thing with Epstein and Clintons? Can you come up with some way Hillary would be involved in his death? Gosh this is fertile grounds for the conspiracy crowd who can't get enough. How about Trump and how he told his assistant AG to shut up Epstein!!! Now there is something you can sink you teeth into and might actually come up with something close to the truth. You go fox news nut newt!!

new2Lax

I would imagine former Democrat governor Bill Richardson, former Democrat Senator George Mitchell and former Democrat President Bill Clinton will be speaking volumes with their associations with Jeffery Epstein. You are correct, it speaks volumes of these Democrats and their associations with Epstein, Bill Clinton is a no brainer but we have to wait and see about the other two. Epstein had close ties with many Democrats and it won’t be pretty going forward. As they go through his business dealings many more will be discovered, you can be sure of that. It will indeed, speak volumes.

oldhomey

Well, as I recall, new2, at least one underaged girl in the employ of Mr. Epstein during the time that Trump considered Epstein to be a "great" guy and spent time with him in his vacation homes, has said she had relations with Trump, too. I guess you seem to know that Epstein only had friendships with Democrats. I would never question your absolute, iron-clad, always-right information, but I think I will wait to see what further investigation bears out. And Lord knows, the ONLY politicians who get themselves into compromised sexual scandals are Democrats, right? You are SUCH a brilliant man! The only flaw in you that I can deduce is that you always end up getting depantsed in these arguments, leaving the bare, awful truth of your mistaken facts hanging out like a terribly embarrassing appendage. But you seem to have no shame, so what does it matter to you, right?

DMoney

The tendency that you and others here have to judge a person completely based wholly on their negative traits runs contrary to your claims against him. You view and judge him in black and white. Do you do this with all people? If so, it must be a scary and depressing world for you. And I'd say you should practice what you preach.

oldhomey

If I saw any redeeming feature in Donald Trump, D, you would hear about it. I thought I could support him on his tough stance on China trade policy, but he completely blew it by withdrawing from our trade agreement with other Pacific Rim trade partners. We can't win these fights on our own. The genius of America has been the building of workable and fruitful alliances both for trade and defense. Do I do this with everybody? Not everybody is so bereft of human decency, honesty, honor, ethics and self-awareness as Donald Trump. So, no, I do not do this with all people. With Mr Trump, it's special.



If you are telling me to practice what I preach, perhaps I could point out your rancid, toxic comments about Hispanics in southern California and your practice of projecting that judgement on Hispanics in general. A scary and depressing world? It is you, not I, who is convinced that the billionaires and industrialists have a chokehold on the power and privilege in our society that cannot be broken. It is you, not I, who has already declared that the destruction of the world due to global warming is now a given, with no chance of reversing the course. How scary and depressing is that for a world view? And it is yours. Practice what you preach, indeed.

PhysicsIsFun

Dmoney you are certifiably the most obtuse and ridiculous person I have ever dealt with. So you feel we should judge a person on the totality of the character. I imagine that Timothy McVeigh and Charles Manson has some good points. They were nice to their mothers and behave respectfully during the national anthem. I am not saying that Trump is a mass murderer, but you are the guy who loves the slippery slope argument. When a person shows you who they are, believe them. Trump shows us everyday the empty narcissistic egomaniac that he is. I would say that good character is an essential attribute of a president. To you it seems to be just fluff. Your world must be a depressing place to live in.

DMoney

I do hold those beliefs, and it used to be depressing. But with acceptance comes peace and clarity. Regarding the scum that is Southern California, I never said my opinion was due to the residents skin color. I've spent ample time in Texas, and the Latino community there is overwhelmingly fantastic. It's the culture. Not the ethnicity.

oldhomey

You have found "peace and clarity" by accepting that you and your loved ones -- and all of society -- will forever be at the mercy of billionaires and corporate moguls, and that humanity is doomed, anyway, because of unstoppable global warming?



D, I have always accepted that you showed glimmers of actual intellect at work, but you pretty much have negated that theory with this statement. Are you making your daughters comfortable as they face a preordained life of servitude to the rich and powerful and eventual horrible end of world scenario either for themselves, their children or their grandchildren? Do you have some sort of Zen chant that smooths out the rough edges of thinking about those prospects?



Your reassurances of your broad-minded view of the dystopian, filthy Hispanic southern Californian culture vs. the "fantastic" ethnicity of Tex-Mex ethnicity is less than convincing. Or do I have it reversed, and it is the Southern California Hispanic ethnicity versus Tex-Mex culture?

crank

If you hadn't noticed, this guy judges a person wholly on whether their political positions agree with his own; you've noticed he does not do this with all people. My favorite is when he insists others are angry as he's losing his temper. [innocent]

BTW...the trib-libs hate it when you tell them to practice what they preach.

DMoney

Physics, you are right, Trump isn't a mass murderer. Also I (and millions of other American's) don't see this "empty narcisstic egomaniac". That's your opinion of him, based mostly on him having different views on running this country that don't align with yours. You are entitled to your opinion.

DMoney

Oldhomey--why, yes, I have. When you are faced with an undeniable truth, what choices are there? Stress and fear and angst or peace, acceptance and re-focus? There's nothing we can do about the long-term environment. It's toast. But, we can enjoy what we have left. So protect our state forests, rivers, lakes, etc so that we can enjoy them as long as possible. There's nothing we can do about the government, banks, oligarchs running this country. So, participate. Can't beat em, join em. Make good money, have fun, be secure. My kids still believe in Santa, Mickey Mouse, etc. There's no need to express my long term world views yet. I'll wait till they are adults and let them form their own opinions, as a good parent does.

oldhomey

Well, then D, I guess I can accept that you are one of those individuals for whom the world is "a scary and depressing" place. You have laid out your reasons for believing it to be so, and the only optimism I can detect is that you think that you can ameliorate things for yourself by kow-towing to the powers that be in hopes of making as much money as possible, as though that will brighten the encroaching doom that you predict. Good luck with that.

oldhomey

Bereft of anything to say in his own, sorry defense, the big fella, crank indulges in a meaningless snit at 12:20pm. He seems to increasingly grasp tightly on to D's skirts, I suppose thinking it will give him some protection.

martian2

Trump may not be a terrorists but he certainly is an enabler. Remember that "very fine people" quote from him summarizing the marching KKK and white supremacists who killed a young woman in Charlotesville. I guess Lowry conveniently loss track of that event. Yes it would be nice someday to have a thoughtful caring person occupy the white house again, like Obama.

Comment deleted.
martian2

poor veteran, still wearing those panties? Talk about fantasy, you poor soul!

DMoney

This comment is very insightful as to how you view things and how your mind works. You are notorious for categorizing people and events. You habitually change quotes, sayings, meanings to fit your pre-conceived and generalized views.



For example, the "very fine people" quote was regarding all people at the rally from both sides, containing extremist groups from both sides. Certainly, card-carrying members of the KKK are not "fine people". But neither are card-carrying members of Antifa and other far left groups who are equally racist and violent. It was a dumb thing to say by Trump, but not racist, as he didn't specify groups. Secondly, the KKK and white supremacists didn't collectively "kill" a young woman in Charlotesville. A psychopathic murderer did.

martian2

"very fine people" was applied to both sides, and how stupid was that. One side was KKK and white supremacists, the other side was peaceful counter demonstrators against racism and hate. One side killed a young woman who was peacefully protesting, the other side did not. And now you want to exonerate the whole KKK and white supremacists for that murder. both sides were not equally violent. All those on the kkk and white supremacists are psychopathic morons, not very fine people. Not one of them is that. but you and trump seem to think so. Should the FBI go after white supremacists groups D? Or you just going to keep stone walling. Talk about changing meanings and sayings, you are the master at that.

awol2009

Lowry, once again, portrays a pointless obfuscation of the truth and hate mongering that spews from tRump's filthy mouth. Non-Republicans do not subscribe to illegal immigration or open borders. The do, however, subscribe to nondiscriminatory, humane and legal treatment of asylum seeking immigration. Every American with a heartbeat should bre appalled and disgusted with the hate speech directed at Latinos and other minority groups of humans seeking humanitarian relief that our country used to stand for. The El Paso murderer has proclaimed tRump as his "hero" in justifying the slaughter and maiming of the people in Walmart one week ago. Another disgusting incident was tRump and his wife posing for a photo-op with the orphaned baby, who's parents died protecting him in the El Paso Walmart shooting. Smiling??? tRump giving his sick "thumbs up" in the photo op?? It is beyond the pale. It is about as sick and low as one can go. tRump is a sick psychopath with zero human decency. What a sick tool he is for the GOP.

Jobaba

I'm a Democrat. No one I know (including me) is for open borders. Everyone I know thinks illegal acts should be punished. But at some point, Lowry has to start being honest. It is both wrong and illegal to give jobs to illegal immigrants. Making a living off of slave labor is immoral.

Climatehoax

Making a living off of slave labor is immoral??? The illegals keep coming, it can’t be to frikin bad!!!

It’s also immoral to offer Medicare to illegals who contributed nothing while I’ve paid in for 47 years, it’s also immoral to make hard working taxpayers and people on fixed incomes pay for someone else’s college, its also immoral to run business out by mandating a $15.00 (or higher)minimum wage when the fool who wants that can’t pay his campaign workers that much and he’s a freakin MILLIONAIRE, it’s also immoral to try and do away with private health insurance when many people have GREAT insurance!



, mind you ALL the above are DemoRat ideas.

PhysicsIsFun

"Certain groups of individuals born outside of the United States can be eligible for Medicare coverage. No illegal aliens are allowed to collect Medicare benefits. Those who are legal aliens in the United States and have lived in the country for at least five years continuously may be Medicare eligible but need to contact a local Medicare office for specific eligibility information as it can vary from person to person." From MyMedicare.com https://mymedicare.com/medicare-eligibility/

DMoney

The El Paso murderer did not refer to Trump as his "hero". I read the manifesto. He goes to great lengths stating how he does not want Trump to get credit or blame for this action, as he harbored these feelings for years.

martian2

oh thank you for that endearing and heartfelt post defending you dear leader Trump. It was almost worth the calories I used to read it and respond. Yes a crazy nut full of hate who committed murders certainly is one to tell the truth and therefor exonerates Trump of any and all manifestations. I love your logic D.

DMoney

The original comment was "The El Paso murderer has proclaimed tRump as his "hero" in justifying the slaughter and maiming of the people in Walmart one week ago. "



This is a bold face and lazy lie. All I'm saying. Does that not matter?

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