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If there’s one thing that elite opinion tends to agree about on the left and the right, it’s that nationalism is a very bad thing.

If anything, this view has become even more entrenched as nationalism has demonstrated its potency in recent years, from the election of Donald Trump to Britain’s vote to leave the European Union.

When President Trump first openly embraced the term “nationalist” at a 2018 campaign rally, commentators reacted in horror.

Patriotism is about love, nationalism about hate, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof opined. Trump, insisted Jennifer Rubin of The Washington Post, is “normalizing a hateful political philosophy that is contrary to our deepest-held beliefs.”

As I write in my new book, “The Case for Nationalism,” this reflexive hostility to the concept is ill-informed and an attempt to deem nationalism a swear word and end all discussion on that basis.

At its most basic, the scholar Azar Gat writes, nationalism is “the doctrine and ideology that a people is bound together in solidarity, fate and common political aspirations.” Historian Anthony Smith described the national ideal as “a belief that all those who shared a common history and culture should be autonomous, united and distinct in their recognized homelands.”

A key contention of nationalism is that a nation has its rights and claims. This is a thread that runs through the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address and the Atlantic Charter. A nation has the right to break off from larger sovereignties in the cause of self-determination (see, for instance, 1776), and to remake its regime or foundational governing rules (see, for instance, 1789).

So if a nation’s rights and interests are being trampled, loyalty to the nation, i.e., nationalism, may require treason against the government, the object of patriotic loyalty. As Michael Lind explains, “Governments should serve nations, not nations governments.”

When Europe went off the rails in the early 20th century, nationalism as such didn’t cause its crash so much as social Darwinism, militarism and the cult of charismatic leadership. The aftermath of World War I added its own poison.

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Regardless, American nationalism — which encompasses such diverse, rightly beloved figures as Alexander Hamilton, Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt — is not to be feared. As with so many other things about this country, it is more benign than the versions to be found in Europe and other places around the world.

This is true for a number of reasons. First, we are the inheritors of an Anglo-American tradition that has profound respect for the individual and the rule of law and is a fundamental part of our national identity.

The sheet anchor of American sovereignty, the U.S. Constitution, makes it clear that authority ultimately resides with “we the people of the United States.” The Constitution also happens to be a durable mechanism of self-government and itself an object of patriotic loyalty and national pride.

Finally, the United States was never infected with the dream of universal empire that Europe inherited from Rome and that has lingered on in differing forms from Charlemagne to the European Union.

The rise of Donald Trump has pushed the left further away from respect for nationalistic attitudes and even patriotic symbols. Democrats — and the country — would be much better served if they countered Trump’s nationalism with a version of their own.

On his own side of the aisle, Trump has made Republicans more nationalistic. Still, much of the party is quietly uncomfortable with this.

If Trump loses in 2020, the party’s establishment may try to snap back to its pre-Trump disposition of relative indifference to nationalism.

Yet, if there’s one clear political lesson from the long history of nationalism in this country and elsewhere, it is that a party interested in moving people and selling a program should make some sort of an appeal to it — even if conventional wisdom insists it is foolish and wrong.

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Rich Lowry is on Twitter @RichLowry.

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(91) comments

johnnybragatti

The sameness,likeness and exactness of Hitler and trump are absolutely endless. Hitler 2020 !!!! better get on back to Trump University and get your accredited degree. Meanwhile ya"ll might want to give to the Clinton Foundation, as the return on investment,is a whole lot better than the Orange Carcass Foundation'

Jobaba

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/11/08/judge-says-trump-violates-democratic-norms-judiciary-speech/

Another similarity between Hitler and Trump. The effort to mangle and twist our judiciary into a tool to be used by the great leader. While Hitler mostly did his manipulations in secret at first, Trump does in the open.

These are blueprints for how to take over a country through cynical and twisted methods. In the end, it is only the Constitution that stops this, but for how long?

Both the press and judiciary are in the Constitution. Many presidents have had problems with both, yet none have resorted to underhanded lies of the type Trump tells. Which was another tactic of Hitler. It is possible to tell so many lies that the weak of mind, already trapped by constant propaganda, cannot tell the difference between truth and falsehood.

Hitler claimed that it was time Germany became a great nation on the world stage again and that he was the one to accomplish that.

He wanted to Make Germany Great Again! Sound familiar?

DMoney

I feel sorry for you.

oldhomey

Yes, D, you are well-known for your humane concern of others.

DMoney

That's apparently a compliment, from someone politicizing the death and suffering of millions at the hands of evil.

oldhomey

Take it any way you want, D. You do, anyway. I have no power over that. It mystifies me, however, how you defend a president who is doing everything he can to serve himself at the expense of the country. I don't think he styles himself after Adolph Hitler, if that makes you feel any better. He is more like Mussolini. who ended up kowtowing to Hitler, much like Trump now kowtows to the current leading fascist in the world, Mr. Putin.

martian2

why not cut out the middle man there D, and in 2020 just vote for Putin.

DMoney

Trump has been harder on Russia than Obama in terms of sanctions and military deployments. We have military outposts from Norway down through turkey.

oldhomey

You just described NATO in your 12:59am post, D. It has been around for a few decades now, but Trump has been making a lot of noise about getting out of it.

DMoney

Much of the troops and equipment is ours. The US--stationed in Norway--to protect Europeans who do not contribute the minimum to their own defense. What a wonderful organization.

oldhomey

So the most astute person on these boards when it comes to geopolitical issues sees NATO as a waste of US time and resources. How astute of you, D.

DMoney

I do? I don't recall saying that. But since you bring it up, why should the US be responsible for a greater percentage of the cost of the alliance? How is that fair or reasonable?

oldhomey

Well, D, this comment does not seem to be an inspiring endorsement by you of NATO: "The US--stationed in Norway--to protect Europeans who do not contribute the minimum to their own defense. What a wonderful organization." It is true that NATO members have been laggards in meeting the agreed upon two percent of their budgets on defense. Trump is only the latest of a long list of presidents demanding they spend more on defense. In fact, they started paying more for defense in the last three years of the Obama administration. As for Norway, the U.S. troops sent there seem to be there on a training mode, training in the far northern reaches of the country in winter military combat alongside Norwegian troops. They are rotated in and out of there every six months or so according to what I could discover, numbering from 300 to 700 at a time. If the Norwegians aren't helping with the expenses for this, you can go after the president who sent them there, as U.S. troops had not been in Norway from the end of the WWII, that war about which you are so well-read, until 2017, the first year of the Trump administration. Typical Trump. He wants to pull the U.S. out of NATO, but meanwhile he extends the U.S. presence in NATO. He is a man without a plan, without a vision, without a clue, but he has a huge seat of pants by which to fly himself into all sorts of flak and trouble.

Jobaba

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50329597

Imagine Italian nationalists sending death threats. Unthinkable because, you know, nationalism is what we want?

Jobaba

So Hitler did everything in his power to control the press. Attacked them without mercy. Know the phrase Lügenpresse? Yup, Hitler's. "Lying press". The reason he did this is obvious, he wanted one reality and one source of all reality - him. He started his campaign against the press almost immediately on his rise to power. Later the Nazis passed out free radios with only the Nazi station on them.

Sound familiar? Our president prefers to have official communication directly into your brain on Twitter. He doesn't want it filtered through the press. The White House hasn't had a press conference in over 8 months. The visitors to the White House are secret, the log is no longer visible to Americans.

Do you remember Trump wanting to revoke broadcasting licenses? I do.

There was a time in our shared history when it was a source of pride that we had a free press when so much of the rest of the world didn't. (And no, the press hasn't changed a bit over our country's history.)

This is one example of similarities between Hitler and Trump. There are many more. I could write all night on this.

Those that say it is a disrespect to Hitler's victims are wrong. It isn't about the evil of Hitler (although I suppose it could be) but more about the strategy he used to gain and keep power.

oldhomey

Agreed, Jo, and well-said. Seeing the seeds of fascism in Trump's tactics is actually the best way we can honor and respect the memory of Hitler's victims, by standing up to a new onslaught of fascist thinking and behavior.

Jobaba

I do agree. I had thought to add that. There is a realization that no one can speak for the dead, but on the other hand, would they want to see the rise of that evil again?

DMoney

Nobody's mentioning it or thinking about it, except for you (and any other on the left) bringing up fantastical and theoretical connections.

DMoney

Yes, because America faces a real threat of going down the path of National Socialism and even Nazism. Give me a break.

oldhomey

I have five words for you, D: Donald Trump and Steve Bannon.

johnnybragatti

Ten/Four Joba, as usual. My uncle had brought a Nazi radio back from WW2,mfg. by Siemens-Kukulski . You could certainly get any station you want ,as long as it"s the Hitler/Nazi channel. There was a Trump TV in the works, before the 2016 election,which would be similar to Hitler"s idea. The sameness of Hitler and Trump are endless.

DMoney

You found two vague similarities. Good work. You could make a handful of vague similarities about any two world leaders from history, or any two people in world history for that matter. The list of differences is immense. The only reason you choose Hitler to make the comparison is for the emotional effect. And the reason there's an emotional effect is because of Hitler's legacy. And that is killing millions and causing world-wide suffering and misery. That's a low move.

Cassandra

I would expect nothing less than this kind of tripe from Lowry.

Jobaba

This is one reason that comparisons to Hitler are apt. Nationalism says America is right. And who is America? The government. And who is the government? Trump.

DMoney

Trump constitutes one branch. He's not the government.

oldhomey

D, Trump is doing his damndest to knock out the power of Congress while stocking the Supreme Court and other federal benches with extremist right wing jurists who he hopes will give him free rein on dictating policy on immigration, abortion, loosening of regulatory powers, undercutting public education and everything else that he wants to run amok with. He is the modern equivalent of the French king who declared: "l'etat c'est moi." But I should never challenge somebody like you, worldly and so deeply and widely read that you know history and you know geopolitics beyond anything anybody else posting on these boards knows. How do I know that? You told the rest of us that was the truth about you.

DMoney

I can't take you seriously on this topic. Not while comparing Trump to Hitler.

oldhomey

Well, my young and naive friend, I am dead serious in my comparison.

DMoney

Trump is unique in his actions/ambitions to do this? Again, give me a break.

oldhomey

Oh? So you say others have been megalomaniacal and corrupt, so Trump is not unique, and that makes him okay? Here are some other megalomaniacal leaders historically -- Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, Putin. Trump admires the way they took charge, getting their way in all things, enjoying having their backsides kissed by adoring, quivering flunkies while they took their nations down the chutes.

DMoney

Nationalist, socialist, communist, patriotic... whatever. Just be American. Follow the rules, uphold, respect and defend the Constitution and it's processes. Seek and use your freedom for the benefit of your family and community.

Preserve your regional resources and environment. Participate. It's really that simple.

Cassandra

Tell it to Trump.

oldhomey

Exactly, Cassie. 'nuff said.

oldhomey

Leave it to Lowry to get semantical. Words have meanings, but the meanings can be changed in different contexts. People who object to Trump trying to ride "nationalism" see that he is twisting the meaning much in the way Adolph Hitler did in the 1930s, trying to make it a semi-religious quest for some sort of elitist national purity that he can use to lead his gullibles down any path he wishes to lead them.

DMoney

Comparing Trump to Hitler is very immature and disrespectful to millions of victims. Some of those victims are still living. Please give them the respect of not minimising the horror they faced. There's no comparing what you see as poor policy to mass extermination of human beings and attempted world conquest.

martian2

oh get off it D. Comparing some of Trump's behavior and rhetoric is proper and necessary and is not disrespectful to anyone. You would want us to ignore history and not learn from it. Pointing out similarities is between the two is healthy for this nation and the world. If we don't learn from history we are condemned to repeat it. Now that would be disrespectful!

DMoney

You are telling us that you believe Trump will eventually abolish our current system of government, become the sole authority, initiate a system of ethnic cleansing, use the military to wage wars of conquest? If not, you are being disrespectful.

martian2

where in hades do you read that I am telling you Trump is going to be exactly like Hitler in all respects? You are just making that up, taking everything to the extreme. The focus is on a narrow comparison, a not a wide all encompassing scenario. You make such foolish statements. No that road, whatever that means, will not lead to similar results/outcomes as Hitler's. This is a different time, different country with checks and balances. However comparable behavior to Hitler can reinstall hatred and intolerance in the hearts of many. That is why we must be on the guard and learn from history.

PhysicsIsFun

Dman for a person who thinks himself so intelligent you sure are thick. No one is saying Trump is exactly like Hitler. He has not exterminated millions of people. What they are saying is that Trump is using many of the same techniques that Hitler used to consolidate his power in Germany. I know when the dictionary is your go to source for in depth knowledge subtle comparisons can be hard. We will try to help you see the logic of the argument.

DMoney

The only reason for a mention of HItler/Nazi's is the ultimate actions and results and legacy they are remembered for. Take away Hitler's murder, genocide, world conquest, wars--he would have been just another politician. But he was evil. He used his evil to create war, death and suffering for millions around the world. Take away those ends, and the means don't really matter. Unless you think Trump will end up doing something similar--it's a ridiculous comparison.

shameless

The comparison is apt. Look at the road that Hitler took and compare it to Drumpf's, the similarities are striking.

DMoney

Then you must believe that road will lead to similar results/outcomes as Hitler's, right?

oldhomey

That's right, D. Trump is leading our country down some alarmingly dark and dangerous roads away from the spirit and light that once was the envy of the world. Why is he doing this? Because he is right. He could shoot somebody in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue in NYC, or La Crosse, for that matter, and you and his chump supporters would cheer him on. He is in this for himself, not for you, not for me, not for America, just for Donald Trump.

DMoney

Does Hitler's "road" matter, or his "destination"? Take away the latter and the former isn't really that terrible, in the course of human history.

DMoney

Homey--again--until there's a shred of proof that our light has diminished in a lasting and meaningful away--these are empty words. Your fantasies. They hold zero factual weight. All results indicate little to no change in the status quo. No lost allies, no new wars, no new enemies, we're not weaker, we're not poorer. These are facts and I am right until you prove--prove--me wrong.

oldhomey

So, D, from what I gather from your 7:35 ans7:37pm posts, you think Trump directing us down evil paths is not so bad, just so we don't go too far down them. I suppose that is what ordinary Germans thought circa 1936-37, then found they were way too far down the paths when the time came. They still live in disgrace, 75 years later. If you read anything but right-wing propaganda, you might discover that our NATO allies are now thinking the U.S. is already out of NATO with Trump. And South Korea is worrying that we are ready to leave them in the lurch, as Trump is making noises about that, too. It is astonishing to me that a president without the consent of Congress, the Defense Department, the State Department and even the majority of the people can unilaterally do so much damage to the nation.

DMoney

Provide a source, please, any source. You are fantasizing. Allies worried about us? Show me the actions they've taken to distance themselves. Show us.

oldhomey

Jan. 14, 2019

WASHINGTON — There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years.

Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set.

In the days around a tumultuous NATO summit meeting last summer, they said, Mr. Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States.

..................

Four-star US generals and admirals are a taciturn bunch: they measure their words, qualify their statements and guard their silence out of loyalty to the armed forces and to their country.

Mattis resignation triggered by phone call between Trump and Erdoğan

Not this week.

A torrent of raw military condemnation has been unleashed on Donald Trump, with some of the most respected figures among retired military leaders lining up to express their profound disapproval of their commander-in-chief.

The outpouring was exceptional, both for the sheer number who unloaded on the president and for the unrestrained language in which they put it. The most breathtaking words came from William McRaven, a former commander of US special operations command who oversaw the 2011 raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

In an opinion article in the New York Times, McRaven accused Trump of spreading “frustration, humiliation, anger and fear” through the armed forces and of championing “despots and strongmen” while abandoning US allies. The four-star admiral called for Trump to either shape up or ship out of the White House.

“If this president doesn’t demonstrate the leadership that America needs, both domestically and abroad, then it is time for a new person in the Oval Office – Republican, Democrat or independent – the sooner, the better. The fate of our Republic depends upon it.”

That Trump should be coming under such sharp criticism from figures as revered as McRaven is all the more extraordinary given that Trump put those he called “my generals” at the center of his cabinet when he took office almost three years ago. He appointed Jim Mattis as defense secretary, Michael Flynn and HR McMaster as successive national security advisers, and John Kelly as homeland security secretary and then White House chief of staff.

Now all those generals are gone, and some are speaking out.

Mattis, who has largely kept his silence since resigning last December, made clear his disdain for the president in the form of a stream of jokes at a black-tie roasting on Thursday night. In his first public comments about his former boss, Mattis mocked the amount of time Trump spends on his golf courses and poked fun at how he had avoided military service in Vietnam by claiming bone spurs in his feet.

“I earned my spurs on the battlefield; Donald Trump earned his spurs in a letter from a doctor,” Mattis said.

////////

There is more, D, but it is too much for this site to constantly cut and paste the evidence you want but won't read.

DMoney

Where does it say we pulled out of NATO? Where does it say we've lost any allies?

oldhomey

If you have a president who is as rash and reckless as Donald Trump, and he says he thinks we should pull out of NATO and pull out of South Korea, what are we, as Americans, supposed to think, and what are our defense partners in NATO and South Korea supposed to think? That he is just a grand strategist moving pieces on his personal chess board, and all will end well? How naive are you, anyway?

DMoney

Yeah, but neither of those things happened? The only thing that happened is SK agreed to pay another billion towards our defense of their land. NATO got called to the carpet for under-funding and not meeting their commitments. That's a bad thing? Nothing real has changed, it's all talk and headlines.

oldhomey

Trump just stabbed a long-standing ally that did the brunt of the fighting for us against ISIS, the Kurds, in the back, D. The rest of the world watched this, particularly our NATO allies and our allies in South Korea. Do you think they are looking long term at America as a reliable partner in defense anymore? Do you read what the leaders of those nations are saying? Of course you do not. You read talking points off of Fox News and Breitbart, the same as new2. You just synthesize them a little more intelligently into your factless, baseless arguments than he is capable of doing.

DMoney

Turkey is our NATO ally. We have no alliance with the Kurds and we never have. Can't make a formal alliance with an ethnic group. Gotta be a nation. I would think our additional NATO allies would prefer us working with fellow members and not against them.

oldhomey

More geopolitical wisdom from D. Perhaps you could describe the birth of Israel to us by using your considerable knowledge of how ethnic groups are not eligible for consideration as allies. Why don't the Palestinians show your good old common sense and become Egyptians or Jordanians and skip all the drama? The Ukranians could solve a lot of problems if they would just admit that they actually are Russians and join Putin's National Socialist homeland. But they are all living so far away from us and are so removed from American radar, they just gum up our ideas of geopolitical issues, so we can safely just forget about them and get on with the glorious new era of Trumpism.

DMoney

I don't know much about the history of Israel, as it's never really interested me. I know they are a sovereign nation, and have been since about the same time we've been their ally. I know Ukraine is. Palestine? They had been a nation, not sure what their deal is now but if I led Israel I'd probably annex them as to stop the constant terrorism from there. Martian corrected me, an alliance can be between a nation and a group of people. But I wouldn't consider that form of an alliance as equal or stronger than a formal alliance amongst nations.

Da Bears

Well said, DMoney.

capedcrusader

Wow! Da Bears hasn't posted since Sept and that's the best you got? Did you forget you had that account? "Well said, DMoney". Really?

DMoney

Must have been a heck of a comment! ;)

Hey19

Yep. That's all I need. Short and sweet. Did it go over your head?

Sorry, but I don't have time to troll like you do...

'Nuff said, capedcrusader.

oldhomey

Get out the violins and hankies. Hey 19 is back here. I wonder if he was crank all along.

oldhomey

Should anybody else here have forgotten (sniffle), this is (sob) how Hey19 decided on his screen name (boohoo). It is a heart wrencher. I am SO glad he is back here so that we can commiserate with him (sorry, I am having trouble seeing the screen while I cut and paste this). The man is nothing if not truth standing tall:

Hey19 Oct 21, 2017 9:35pm

re: caped - Oct 21, 2017 6:52pm

Since caped is a petulant, adamant assH*le, I'll tell him the story behind the nickname. Maybe then the little LYING brat will finally shut the h*ll up.

"Hey, 19" is a tribute to a fiancee, the last words spoken to her. She opened her eyes one final time to look up at her true love, who was squeezing her hand as she passed away. She wore uniform #19.

Get it, a**hole?

(You're a REAL man, caped, calling into question my integrity regarding something which you knew nothing about, and constantly demanding an answer to something that is none of your dam* business.... Be proud of yourself.)

Hey, Buggs? Thanks for having my back on this one.

Hey19

Glad to see you were crying tears of joy upon my brief return here, oldhomey/martian. But the joke's on you oldhomey(liar).

Nice to see you brought back one of my greatest hits - the nickname scenario, which played you and capedcrusader to be the fools and liars you really are...

Speaking of capedcrusader, I wonder how long it will take for our resident nosy troll to respond and whine? Your sanctimonious act is growing stale, dude. (When are you going to admit you work for the Trib, caped?)

(Hey, Crank? I'm soooo honored oldhomey has a compiled a dossier on me; I, too, am on his hit list! The guy had to dig deep, but he goes back to his graveyard of forgotten oldies to quote me from two years ago! I am soooo flattered... He's still misrepresenting the truth, though, which makes him a liar.)

Sorry, boys, but I've managed to wean myself of your drivel. Although I had a short relapse tonight, I've found better things to do than to waste my time on you. (But what a pleasure it has been to sit back and laugh at you both for the year and ten months or so since my last post...)

'Nuff said. Yours truly,

Da Bears? Or Hey19? Or crank? Or holmenpacker? Or maybe even Freehan...

Pst: Click, er, chew on these, oldhomey. Or maybe not. Somebody's watching you, big fella. Wouldn't want you to blow your covers! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

https://scrabble.merriam.com/finder/pst

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pst

oldhomey

I didn't have to dig deep, Hey(Sob!)19 to find your moving, absolutely tragically obvious lying scenario of how you settled on your screen name. I simply tapped on your screen name on your 10:17pm post to see when you last had appeared here, and up popped a bunch of posts by you from early 2018, one of which contained that terribly tear-soaked, ineptly imagined scenario. It will follow you forever, I guess.

By the way, at one time I DID save your silly, melodramatic fiction about your screen name, but I long since lost that. Now I have it, again, and will save it again. I try to do that when self-serving, self-righteous a$$es on these boards such as yourself and crank make mind-bogglingly bad and/or improper posts so that I can always hold them up to you as a mirror of how bad you look to the rest of the world. I am seeing more similarity in your language and your crazed, bumper-ball bouncing back and forth between ideas to that of redwall. So, I have to ask, are you subscriber to this newspaper, or are you just freeloading here? Or, to put it another way, are you redwall going back to a former screen name?

oldhomey

Gosh, Hey(Sob!)19, it is tough to see you retire so quickly. You say you have had fun laughing at me and others for the last year and a half since you last posted on here? I don't know how you did that without subscribing to the paper. Not that I would EVER make an off the cuff suggestion that you might be lying. I found having you on here again SO refreshing, particularly this comment from you: "Nice to see you brought back one of my greatest hits - the nickname scenario, which played you and capedcrusader to be the fools and liars you really are..." Yes, I was certainly taken in by THAT whopper! It must have taken me at least a tenth of a second before I was all over you for it. At least you are finally owning up to the lie. Don't you feel a little bit better about yourself today for having admitted it?

oldhomey

Oh, and I almost forgot, Hey(sob!)19, maybe you should apologize to Buggs for hornswoggling him with that atrociously silly and inept screen name origin story, for which he came to your defense, I guess, as you thanked him for "having you back" on it when you pretended to be grievously hurt and offended when I told you only a bird brain could believe a tale like that.

martian2

what a silly column by Lowry. Did I read it right that he is writing a book about Nationalism!? Kind of a sneaky way to plug his new book and get free advertising. Like anything else in life, if taken to extremes just about anything can be harmful. Nationalism is no different. History shows us many examples of extreme nationalism and what it can do. Today we live in a global economy where the boundary lines of countries take a back seat to commerce and peaceful coexistence. A good thing in many respects.

johnnybragatti

The Ku Klux Klan enjoys huge membership,thanks to trump and nationalism,another word for racism,bigotry and hatred for your fellow man , by the Orange Carcass.

PhysicsIsFun

Republican should be a dirty word!

Climatehoax

Good, you sound like you’re ready to follow the DemoRats down the $1000.00 a month road if you choose not to work, the free Medicare for all, even illegals that workers have contributed to for decades, the gun grab by the DemoRats, paying for people’s past due medical bills, but I figure you’re on welfare, so you won’t have to pay for these so called freebies.

DMoney

That's extremely and broadly discriminative and prejudicial. That must mean you have sweeping and ignorant views of every other group too, right? Skin colors, sexual orientations, etc? If you are going to be anti-trump, please don't talk like him. It comes off as insanely hypocritical.

PhysicsIsFun

No. It just means that I think the Republican Party as it stands today is a criminal conspiracy that only cares about maintaining its grip on power. It is only concerned with its benefactors who are the richest of our citizens. It does this through manipulation of laws, practices, and feeding our most gullible citizens a load of cr@p. Don't preach to me Dman. You are one of the worst.

DMoney

That's almost 33 million people you are labelling, and you don't personally know hardly any of them. Curious, how do you feel about African Americans? There's about 44 million of them here. You'll never see me discriminate against a mass group of people. Ever. Never have, never will.

martian2

again D takes things to the far extreme. Comparing a political party, and what it stands for, to an ethnic group or race is so ludicrous! By saying you hate a political party, you are saying you don't agree with its policies. That's it. Doesn't mean you hate each and every individual person who votes for that political party. Gosh you sound more foolish with every post D. This is elementary stuff that you never grasped.

PhysicsIsFun

When I say the Republican Party, I am referring to the professional people who run the party and who hold office. I do not necessarily mean the people who vote Republican. I have many friends and family members who vote Republican. Though thankfully that number is decreasing as this abomination of a presidency continues. I do not think they are criminals. I think they are either misguided or vote Republican because they always have and continue to do so without giving it a lot of thought. Not everyone is dialed in on politics. The people in charge are another story. They are a bunch of unethical, undemocratic, uncaring a$$holes. I can not stand them. We have a rancid bunch of them in this state, and many many more on a national level. Trump is just the top of a large pile oh human excrement. Dman you are in that pile with them. So enjoy the smell.

martian2

I see the president is ordered to pay 2 million dollars by the courts for taking millions that was ear marked for charity and used for personal and political expenses. Trump and his family robbed from the charity for veterans and got caught. the state of New York will not allow Trump to run another charity because he can't be trusted. How low can you go? Just look at the mafia types in the white house. Another slap in the face to veterans from the orange idiot. Just ignore it all trump worshipers, its all fake news. You

oldhomey

Cue in D, who will now rush to Trump's defense for bilking his own so-called charity.

martian2

D is unusually silent on this matter, robbing from a charity. Maybe he ran out of hot air, maybe he is gathering talking points from fox and hate radio or maybe he has seen the light and can no longer defend his idol. Which will it be? I have a pretty good idea.

DMoney

You have proof, factual evidence that they robbed from a charity? Source please.

DMoney

Physics, so you are so special that you can choose who and what groups to blindly discriminate and judge and not others? Wow. That puts you at odds with some major players in the field of psychology and sociology. It tends to be a characteristic of someone who doesn't differentiate. Herd mentality--"us vs them". Again, I'd like you to state your views on another group. Any race/sex/orientation/belief. Give us a range of outcomes here, let's see how far down the rabbit hole you'll go.

DMoney

And please, for your sake, don't waffle on this. Don't categorize it, "I meant the politicians", etc. That's like saying you mean only bisexuals and not homosexuals. Own your prejudice. Let's see it.

martian2

you need proof D about Trump robbing a charity??? Are you that uninformed, that distant, that ignorant of current affairs. I expect that from a third grader. Just comb through the Tribune from a couple days ago, you will find it, along with many other current events that will help you see the world a little more. But no matter, nothing Trump does will ever change your fanatic loyalty. Sad but true.

martian2

here you go D, just so you don't weasel out by saying no proof, no proof! Here is proof and more. at least try to stay informed. https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/11/7/20954033/trump-fine-trump-foundation-charity

oldhomey

D, you apparently do not keep up with the news. This story was all over the media last week:

A New York judge has signed off on a deal to shut down Donald Trump’s personal charity after a lawsuit exposed a “shocking pattern of illegality”.

Justice Saliann Scarpulla approved the deal to close the Trump Foundation and split its remaining $1.7m funds between other charities.

New York’s attorney general and lawyers for the Trump Foundation will have 30 days to provide Scarpulla with a list of organisations and the attorney general’s office will have the right to reject ones it deems unfit.

Trump had used the charity to pay off legal settlements within his business and even to buy a painting of himself to hang in one of his golf clubs.

The news that the charity will shut down was announced on Tuesday by New York’s attorney general, Barbara Underwood, who said the Trump Foundation had signed a stipulation agreeing to dissolve the foundation under judicial supervision.

The action follows a court decision last month allowing Underwood’s lawsuit against the Trump Foundation, whose directors are Trump and his children Ivanka, Don Jr and Eric.

In a statement, Underwood said: “Our petition detailed a shocking pattern of illegality involving the Trump Foundation – including unlawful coordination with the Trump presidential campaign, repeated and willful self-dealing, and much more. This amounted to the Trump Foundation functioning as little more than a checkbook to serve Mr Trump’s business and political interests.”

She added: “This is an important victory for the rule of law, making clear that there is one set of rules for everyone.”

The attorney general had claimed the charity was used as a “piggy bank” to boost Trump Sr’s 2016 presidential campaign, violating rules that bar not-for-profit groups from engaging in certain types of political activity.

The suit claimed that up to $3m in such funds boosted Trump’s campaign. Among examples of improperly used funds is the allegation that the charity spent $10,000 on a giant painting of Trump himself.

The lawsuit alleged that during the 2016 campaign, Trump received more than $2m at a fundraiser in Iowa and the money went to his foundation. The lawsuit said Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, determined when and where money would be given away.

At least five $100,000 grants were made to groups in Iowa in the days immediately before the 1 February 2016 Iowa caucuses.

In November, Justice Scarpulla found that the president was not “immune” from state lawsuits, as Trump has claimed in other litigation.

Following the announcement of the shutdown, the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (Crew) executive director, Noah Bookbinder, said: “The Donald J Trump Foundation has abused the rules governing non-profit charitable foundations and admitted to breaking the law. It apparently operated for the sole purpose of benefiting Donald Trump.

“Crew filed complaints calling for investigations into the Foundation for improper political activity, lying on its tax returns, and self-dealing to benefit Donald Trump, among other problems. It is good to see this fraud is finally over.”

.......

There is much more, D, if you google it. There is a terrific story from Forbes in 2017 detailing how the Trump's scammed a charity raising money for childhood cancer, self-dealing by overcharging fees for using a Trump golf club for a charity venue and redirecting money raised away from the cancer charity to other Trump charities. This is a family full of character. The identical character of the family patriarch, the most corrupt president in the history of the republic.

DMoney

Ok I can't find much to argue against here. Looks scummy and shady. I did see that every dollar ended up where it was supposed to be, eventually. Doesn't help the sleaziness factor. But yeah, this is why I ask for real info. If provided, I won't disregard it.

oldhomey

Well, D, your 4:32pm post raises an important question about you. Where do you go for the news accounts of the day? There should be no reason for you to have asked for the documentation on Trump and his family's so-called charitable efforts. It was all over the news of the responsible mainstream media for the last three or four days. I have no idea how you could have missed it unless you were ignoring MSM in favor of right-wing propaganda sites such as Fox News and Breitbart. Shame on you for coming on here and positing your strongly held beliefs every day when they are based on sham information.

DMoney

If you read every single thing printed about Trump on a daily basis, it raises questions of my own. Namely, why would you spend your well earned retirement time in such a way? Go do something fun, read books, hunt, travel, watch birds, did small engines--something. Regarding my news habits, I see all the headlines. I don't bother reading them if it's not something that I don't find compelling or relevant to me, my family, community or state. I have never been to Breitbart, I can't stand any cable news programs. I DO listen to Andrew Wilcow whenever I can on SiriusXM. But that's rare. Other than that, I watch a lot of Steven Crowder and Kevin's corner on YouTube. That's it.

martian2

its plain to see D that your news sources do not serve you well. Using social media and extremists sites like Crowder and Keven's corner to get the bulk of your news info explains why you are so misinformed. These wackos have no accreditation to be called journalists. My suspicions have been confirmed, you like the rest of your far right gang rely on someone else to form your views of the world. Like hate radio, the more outlandish things that are said, the bigger the audience they attract. And you succumb to it with the lack of knowledge of current events and the lack of rudimentary understanding.

DMoney

Do you know how ignorant that sounds? "My sources are all accurate and honest and yours are all wrong and stupid".

oldhomey

Well, D, I thank you for sharing your thoughts on how empty you imagine my life to be. It is not worth my time to respond to that. On the other hand, I believe it is imperative in the dangerous times we live in to stay abreast of the news. And it is a bit mind boggling to me to discover you, who spends as much time on here opining as i do, that you do not read the news very carefully, you only opine on it, and that generally is based on sources that you think express the opinions you believe to be true. But you do so without making the effort to find out if they are true or not. When I express an opinion, I try to assure myself that it is based on the best information available, whether it agrees with my views or not. That is the difference between you and me. And, while I have not read 5,000 books on WWII literally or figuratively, as you claim to have done, you would not want to hear my wife's comments when I come home with more books to add to those already on sagging shelving that lines rooms upstairs, downstairs and even in the laundry room.

martian2

Nope that is not what I said at all. Read it again, a few more times. I didn't say much about my sources except they are many and varied, and I rely on myself to form my own opinion. Yours are few and totally slanted and you are gullible enough to bank on them to form opinions for you. Between these two ways of looking at the geopolitical world, which one would be closer to reality and the truth.

martian2

here some help for you D on what impeachment is all about, what the legal definitions are, what the procedures are as laid out in the constitution. Doubt you will find this info on your two sources. https://lacrossetribune.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/separating-fact-from-fiction-in-trump-s-impeachment-hearings/article_c887d1ed-a385-55ac-9286-d99209652088.html#_=_

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