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I’m so moved by all the heartfelt passion about the “Hiawatha” statue that it’s clear I’m missing something.

+1 
Rusty Cunningham mug

I wanted to know more about the inspiration for the mighty statue, the history of the native people at the sacred place where three rivers meet.

Something so incredibly historic simply must have information explaining for tourists the world over and to residents of our region what inspired the majestic statue.

So, I headed to the foot of the statue on a foggy morning last week with the American Queen riverboat docked nearby to learn what I was missing.

Here’s what I found.

In the base of the statue is a metal plaque that reads:

HIAWATHA

by La Crosse artist

ANTHONY D. ZIMMERHAKL

assisted by his sons

DON, DAVID AND STEPHAN

1962

That’s it.

Not a damned word about the dude towering over the plaque, the park and the confluence of three rivers.

Oh, there’s another plaque nearby — with plenty of information about the sinking of the War Eagle in the Black River on May 14, 1870.

But the Native Americans who settled our prairie? The people who used to play a game here that came to be known as lacrosse?

Nope, not a word.

Not near the statue.

Not near the river.

Not near the nearby tourism bureau.

Not a thing. Not a word.

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Old 'Hiawatha' sign

This 1962 photo shows the sign that was placed next to the "Hiawatha" statue in Riverside Park. It's not known when the sign was removed.

Thanks to the keepers of our local history, we know there used to be a sign next to the statue with the words:

"This Indian is symbolic of all of the Indians of the area and is dedicated particularly to the braves of the Winnebagoes. Among the most famous were chief Decorah and his son, Chief Winneshiek.”

But the sign is long gone.

Maybe it’s just as well. We couldn’t have agreed on the wording anyway.

Of course, there were plenty of groups and people who opposed naming it Hiawatha from the start because Hiawatha doesn’t represent local native peoples.

Some people pushed to name it for Decorah, but that obviously didn’t fly.

For his part, the artist said he was trying to represent all native peoples, not just those who lived here.

So, we couldn’t agree on what to name it from the start.

And we’ve been fighting for years about whether it’s respectful and whether it should be located in Riverside Park.

And with all that fighting, we’ve forgotten something — something that never comes up unless and until there’s a threat about getting rid of the statue.

Our community has forgotten to tell the story of our Native American heritage on the prairie where three rivers meet.

La Crosse started as a trading post in Indian territory. The trail and the big river led to the prairie, a favorite gathering place for the Native Americans. The French named it Prairie La Crosse for the game they saw being played here by the Native Americans.

But there’s nothing near the statue or in the park to say that.

Not a plaque. Not a word.

It’s a teaching moment that’s been missed since 1962. (Thank goodness there’s a state-sponsored marker in La Crosse’s Red Cloud Park that presents our heritage to visitors.)

You would think we could stop fighting long enough to develop a plaque or a story board that tells an important story in our history, regardless of what happens to the statue.

Evidently, the fight is more important and more fun than telling that important story.

Other than the story of the sinking of the War Eagle, we’ve missed the boat.



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Rusty Cunningham is editor of the La Crosse Tribune.

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(75) comments

HolmenPackerFan

Mr. Cunningham seems to have hit the nail on the head. Based on the childish comments and political bickering which can be seen here, the issue seems more about having a ‘fight’ than about the statue.

oldhomey

Well, FINALLY, Holmen, we can agree on something. Responsible elected officials trying to do the right thing start talking about moving a public object that a significant number of people feel is disrespectful and insulting to the Native American community. Does a reasonable solution to the problem seem possible? No, of course not! There is always somebody who want to have an "issue" to fight over, so they chose this one to mount a big public campaign to thwart any reasonable solution. You have hit the nail on the head, my friend.

crank

I wonder if HolmenPackerFan wasn't referring you you and a few others whose childish bickering about topics unrelated to the Hiawatha statue or this article appear below.

Perhaps you already realize this and it is the reason now you (suddenly) feel compelled to pivot and now offer this comment about "the Native American community" after days of bickering about Hillary, Trump, Alex Jones, Buggs, Rick, Russians, Nazis, Africans, Norwegians, Asians, the Klan, etc. which had nothing to do with this article.

oldhomey

Perhaps you could explain to me, crank, on how I have "pivoted" on my position. I thought I was clear from the beginning that I knew Anthony Zimmerhackl personally, I know he was not a racist. He created the sculpture with entirely honorable intentions. But I think his creation, the Hiawatha sculpture, is an unfortunate work of art, a cement cigar store Indian, and the passage of time and cultural awareness since 1961 has shown the sculpture to be an inappropriate stereotype. It would be okay to move it elsewhere to private property or in a museum setting that could put it into proper historical context, but it should not be on the River Front. THAT is the reasonable solution that public officials were beginning to try to work out, but then somebody came along and started bickering childishly, deciding that they would have a good fight over this. Though you often draw erroneous conclusions, Crank, usually I have found you to be a more careful reader than you have proven to be here.

And yes, I was fully cognizant that Holmen had me in mind as his target in his 10:33am post. I guess I should not risk trying to use irony around you.

crank

I've explained it completely. You may think you've made it clear you knew Zimmerhackl but I'm not sure how you can insist this when you've not even mentioned the man in the comments you've posted on this article. I've reviewed them carefully but no mention of him by you.

I know you have noticed I don't comment here very often. I do see your trolls mentioning me even when I am not here. I resist because this childish bickering (the sort of which I now find myself engaged) as an absurd waste of time. When I see an article 60 or more comments, I know with certainty what I'll find. You seem to have nothing better to do.

Now, you're simply denying things when it is "clear" you were engaged in your usual 'fighting'. Read your own comments. If I'm incorrect, quote for me the comment you've posted here in the thread of comments under this article which even mentions the artist. You cannot...

I'll not wait for your denial. Let's cut to the chase. You'll continue until I stop responding then declare "I've won! Crank is now hiding in the weeds..." or "Ricky has no honor." We've covered this ground before.

An absurd waste of time... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvcnx6-0GhA

HolmenPackerFan

Not specifically oldhomey. I noticed none of the comments were about the article. It was the same bunch as always. They know who they are.

oldhomey

Well, crank, you haven't been very closely reading the ongoing story and column comments regarding the Hiawatha statue all this summer, as I talked about Zim and being in his classes and knowing his sons many, many times. I am no fan of senseless bickering, nor is anybody else that I know of. But for you, I guess, it is best to keep your mouth shut in a policy debate, particularly if it looks like public opinion is going to land on your side of the debate. You DO pipe up when you think your side is losing ground, from what I can read from your responses. Am I clairvoyant when I sense you are reading these posts, even when you don't comment on them? I don't think so, since you seem to come out of left field every once in awhile to carp about something I have said. Perhaps, however, since you do admit to read all this malarkey, you could resurrect an instance where I have declared "I won!" I don't recall doing that, but certainly I have been guilty of rightly noting when somebody has been lying and ducking, and I or somebody else has caught them in the act, that the guilty party has disappeared, unable to credibly defend what they have said. Is that victory, or is that reality?

HolmenPackerFan

What about this one, oldhomey? Did you discuss ‘Zim’ or any of that stuff you say you’ve been posting all summer under THIS article or was it simply childish bickering unrelated to the statue?

Why, if not related to the article, bother to comment at all? The frustration for me is someone who may have a legitimate point of view which is worth considering is drowned out by the considerable noise coming from a handful of you. Who gives a sh*t who you think is a Russian spy or hiding in the weeds, really? For the most part, I have stopped reading comments but when I opened these I was struck by the fact you and others contributed nothing to this discussion about the statue! You and Buggs might consider doing us a favor and simply shut for a while. W-T-F does Hillary Clinton have to do with this statue in Riverside Park? NOTHING! Why was she mentioned in ANY of your comments? Why not just shut up? Y’all are ridiculous with this nonsense!

oldhomey

Perhaps, holmen, you could point out where I digressed from the subject at hand except for those instances when somebody else, instead of dealing with what I was saying, simply bellyached that I was "bickering" and should keep my opinions on the subject at hand to myself.

capedcrusader

From time to time threads can be hijacked and move completely off the topic that was started. It's been my experience that most of the time it's because questions were posed with no response leading others to follow up with more. And one thing naturally leads to another. If you wanna be on here spouting off about things join any number of other ultracrepidarians on here. If you want to control everything start your own blog.

oldhomey

crank asks: "What about this one, oldhomey? Did you discuss ‘Zim’ or any of that stuff you say you’ve been posting all summer under THIS article or was it simply childish bickering unrelated to the statue?" crank tells us he doesn't read many of the comment sections anymore, since he is so frustrated by them. Well, crank, I guess I am guilty of thinking I made my point several times a long time ago about Zim's sincerity and good intentions, and I did not bring it up in this instance until some bickering guy said I simply didn't know the history of the statue. So I brought it up again.

crank says, "The frustration for me is someone who may have a legitimate point of view which is worth considering is drowned out by the considerable noise coming from a handful of you." I am not trying to drown out anybody, I am just expressing my opinion on the statue. If you have an opposing argument, give it, but if it is a faulty argument, don't go into a snit if somebody points out how it doesn't stand up.

"Who gives a sh*t who you think is a Russian spy"? Not me. I never accused anybody on here of being one, though I have caught people on here quoting Russian intelligence produced lies as being the truth. Right Buggs? Right Snow? That has nothing to do with the Hiawatha statue, so why are you bringing it up in this discussion, crank?

"I was struck by the fact you and others contributed nothing to this discussion about the statue!" You are right about not reading many posts, as I and others have contributed quite a bit to the discussion about the statue, both pro and con.

It might be favor to you for me to not comment on these boards, as you suggest ("You and Buggs might consider doing us a favor and simply shut for a while. "), but I owe you no favors, crank, so I will decide when I will comment and when I will remain silent.

"W-T-F does Hillary Clinton have to do with this statue in Riverside Park? NOTHING! Why was she mentioned in ANY of your comments? Why not just shut up? Y’all are ridiculous with this nonsense!" You are absolutely right. Hillary has nothing to do with this statue. Buggs brought her up. Tell him to shut up. Please.

oldhomey

ultracrepidarian? Caped, I am deeply impressed. That is a new word for me, and certainly it is an apt word for many on these boards. I would imagine the word will be flung at me constantly in the near future. It should be interesting to see how Ricky and new2 spell it.

Buggs Raplin

Hillary Clinton going to prison? She's deserves it. Oh my God how she deserves it. Never gonna happen. She's untouchable. The law doesn't apply to her. She's right now preparing to run in 2020 under the theme the Russians caused her loss in 2016, so let's make things right. That'll be her campaign theme. It's bullsh*t, but Democrats will swallow the bullsh*t. Biden will bow out. Warren has lost cred with her lie of Native American ancestry. Bernie? Well, he's the only real competition, but he's very old. I think Hillary, if not waylaid by health problems, will be the Democrat nominee in 2020. Whether that is correct or not, I can guarantee you, she'll never, ever go to prison. There is no justice when you reach that level despite your crimes.

oldhomey

Are you worrying about Hillary's health problems, Buggs? As I recall during the 2016 campaign you were assuring us that she was severely, critically ill, so ill that it seemed improbable she could survive even one term of the presidency, the way you presented her condition. Now you're worried that she is so healthy that she is planning on launching another campaign in 2020? Explain, please. Or were you wrong in 2016 about how ill she was then? What're your odds on Donald Trump not going to prison? You seem to be saying that he is legally untouchable, too. But it keeps getting hotter and hotter in that White House kitchen for him. I personally always thought we should never jail a former U.S. president. Certainly, despite my extreme dislike for Dick Nixon, I did not want to see him go to the slammer. But we have never had such an openly racist, corrupt, inept, immoral human presiding the White House like Trump before. I am not so sure if I would care all that much if we eventually see him standing behind a string of numbers under his chin in a booking photo. Let's see his tax returns. That would decide it for me.

And, Buggs, for the record, I too would be horrified if Hillary runs again. I didn't want her in 2016 because of the Clinton baggage she drags behind her, even though I thing she would do fine as president. I haven't changed my mind, particularly since she also is simply too damned old to be starting out as president. And she is a couple of years younger than me.

capedcrusader

Yea, I feel the same way about Trump. He won't go either but he deserves too. I believe Trump has been laundering money for decades and had/has ties to the Russian mafia. If anyone deserves Prison it's a criminal like Crooked Trump. I don't agree that Clinton will be the nominee. I believe her time has come and gone and she would serve the Party better helping someone new and younger secure the nomination. The Democratic Party needs to get younger and the nations future leaders have to be more then Clinton and Sanders or the Republicans will just continue to win.

oldhomey

amen, caped.

johnnybragatti

Way,way,way too funny, Clinton ain"t even being investigated for anything.
We"ve been infested with an Orange Carcass in the White House, under scrutiny, for : "being up to no good" with a foreign adversary,enemy country.
They should wind it up Sept. ....2020.

Rick Czeczok

Casey's job in the "gang of six"is to stir up trouble with his comments. He's not very good at it though as you can see. Just insulting someone does not make you right. Fake name, fake gender name, FAKE FAKE FAKE it's the demo's way. Hillary your leader is getting closer and closer to prison.

capedcrusader

You keep telling yourself that about Hillary. Wanna bet on that? How do you know that name is fake when you can't even prove yours is real? Can you?

Rick Czeczok

Look it up on the web, stupid!!!!!!!!

capedcrusader

Well, you can always tell when someone is losing a debate. They resort to name calling. Just like Hey19 did when he was called out. Haven't heard from him since his tall tale about how he got his name. Now, can you tell us how we know "Rick Czeczok" is your real name? If you never hide, that surprises me. I've asked you several times about cassandra and about your name and you never answer. Cat got your tongue or the truth?

Cassandra2

Still waiting for the lying Russian troll Zerocock to follow through with its plan to "unmask" me, since it claims to know who I "really" am. Also still waiting for it to depart these pages for 7 years as promised in its July 10 posting. Those sexist Russians just can't handle being schooled by a female, and must lash out continually as they try to undermine our democracy. How sad.

capedcrusader

Czeczok tends to hide when you ask him something he can't answer honestly.

Rick Czeczok

Never hid in my life looser.....

Cassandra2

The Russian bot isn't hiding, it's just refusing to come through with the evidence and refusing to honor its pledge from July 10 to leave these pages for 7 years.

Cassandra2

And it's still trying to get the hang of using American English idiom like "loser."

oldhomey

Rick, I would like to comment on your 8:18pm comment, and it does not concern your "loose" command of spelling. I would like to suggest there is a solid example I can point out of you "hiding". It is the following exchange under another column currently online at this site:

oldhomey Aug 15, 2018 2:16pm

At the risk of Ricky actually disappearing from these boards for the next seven years, and thus being denied his wonderfully insane laughter, I think he should not be allowed to ignore this exchange from this string of comments, so I am copying it to stress he needs to comment on it:

Cassandra2 Aug 11, 2018 7:45am

Zerocock, you promised on July 10 that you would be leaving these comments pages and not returning for 7 years. Were you ordered to return by your KGB/Qanon handlers?
Rick Czeczok Aug 11, 2018 5:10pm

Lie, never said that.
Cassandra2 Aug 12, 2018 2:39pm

Yes, you did. The evidence is right here in the Tribune's pages.
oldhomey Aug 14, 2018 2:57pm

Amen, Cassie. I remember distinctly that he bid farewell to all of us, saying he had given up commenting and reading these boards. When I have time, I may try to retrieve it, though it may be out of the system that we can get access to by this time.
oldhomey Aug 14, 2018 3:04pm

Gosh, that took very little effort. Now, if the pipsqueak Ricky has an answer to this, both Cassie and I would like to see it:

Rick Czeczok Jul 10, 2018 7:24pm

You should really see a psychiatrist, they can help you with opening the door and walking through. Dear, dear boy.....Anyway it's been two years and I have used you for my personal amusement long enough. The "GANG" of DNC puppets on here just keep repeating everything someone else says, like the little kid on the play ground that would always say" I know you are but what am I" because the kid wasn't smart or original enough to think on his own. This group found me out that I am a Russian spy and Boris and Natasha were my mates. Man they are some smart group. Anyway, I can't take people who take themselves so seriously, who are so full of themselves, and think they are something that they are not, nor never will be. So goodbye you important little gang of fools. See you in seven years when Trump leaves office. Tickets to Canada still stand, I will buy them for all of you (the gang") once you denounce US citizenship, as you so hate your country. Love it or leave it baby Casey boy, don't forget to change your diaper.....

oldhomey

Ricky, are you in hiding because of your false assertion that you have never hid in your life? What is it like out there in the weeds with Buggs and Snow?

Redwall

The Tribune is largely responsible for poking the citizens of La Crosse in the eyes by manufacturing and promoting this divisive matter over the last eighteen months, even though it is clear a large majority of La Crosse and area residents want the statue to stay.

The Tribune has given outrageous weight to a few squeaky wheels that claim to find the statue offensive. Maybe the Tribune is now thinking if the statue is taken down it wants to dodge responsibility for its demise and thus this so-late "important lesson" editorial. The editorial take the chicken rout by stopping short of saying the statue should stay.

However, what the Tribune proposes is a pragmatic solution while retaining the statue that may satisfy some and educate many others and has some precedent as the WI DOT has posted similar signage near historic sites to add context given modern sensitivities.

Its too bad the Tribune couldn't have written this editorial before its writers spent a year and a half whipping up local animus.

oldhomey

Red, what you are saying is a little bit like accusing the people who were horrified by the message and behavior of the white supremacists, Nazis and Klan members who massed in Charlottesville rally of racists last year. Were the people who denounced the white supremacists being divisive. Were the people standing up for the respect of all people being trouble-makers? In your mind, it would appear so.

Buggs Raplin

Below is a short comment from oldhomey with no opportunity to reply directly. One can't help but read short comments as you scroll through them. People, if you want to know the truth about the character of oldhomey, please google Sharyl Attkisson's video on astroturfing. oldhomey is THE example of it on these boards. Sharyl is an award winning investigative journalist. An actual journalist with integrity, a rarity these days. As she so wonderfully states, the propaganda media these days has abandoned their questioning of those in authority in favor of challenging those, like Alex Jones, who do question authority. So sad. So very sad. If you tell the truth, you're ridiculed by a media that hasn't told the truth about anything crucial in the last 100 years.

oldhomey

Gosh, Buggs, everybody on here knows how to respond to a comment that has only a "report" option under it. You just go to the first "+Add Reply" option above it, click on that, and your response magically appears under the comment you wish to respond to. But, since you are using this lame excuse, still, to duck out on commenting, I will repeat my comment, and this time there should be a "+Add Reply" for you to use. Sharyl Attkisson used to work for the mainstream media, and I guess after a mutual decision that she was too obstinately determined to inject her personal politics into her reporting, she and CBS parted ways. She now works for the only broadcast organization even more cravenly and openly right-wing than Fox News, the Sinclair broadcasting group. No, she is not an actual journalist. She went to the other side and joined up as a propagandist. That is why you like her. She, too, wants to take the world back at least 100 years, to when there were 65-hour work weeks, child labor, no Social Security or pension plans, no health insurance for anyone, and industry had a free hand in polluting our water and air to maximize profits for unregulated industrial and business trusts.

oldhomey

oldhomey Aug 12, 2018 5:07pm

It's POSSIBLE that you made an error? Every day is a litany of your errors being pointed out by other knowledgeable, honest people posting on these boards, Buggs. Yes, it is entirely possible.

oldhomey

Buggs? This 7:57pm post is the one you said you had no way of replying to it. Now it has the reply function under it. You haven't replied. Are you hiding out in the weeds, again, waiting for this column to age out? It would appear so.

capedcrusader

I'm not hiding out and I can hardly wait for his answer. Although he and Czeczok tend to hide out when something is presented to them that they can't answer...

johnnybragatti

Buggs should interview one of the janitors at Sandy Hook and find out if there was blood to mop up,after the mass murder and where it came from.. 20 baby children perhaps??? Wad he ever 6 years old?
While Buggs is raggin" on vaccinations for kids and turning right around and saying the mass shooting never happened is beyond Evil.
Those lines of "thought" have ways of coming back to haunt.

Buggs Raplin

And your comment as it pertains to Hiawatha?

Rick Czeczok

What's wrong with you? Stay on task already....take your ADD med's.....
Was you're DJ name Freak???????

Cassandra2

"Our community has forgotten to tell the story of our Native American heritage on the prairie where three rivers meet." Maybe the white community has forgotten to tell the story, but rest assured the native community has not. You're just not listening.

Buggs Raplin

The Hiawatha statue honors Native Americans. That was the intent of the sculptor. Leave it in the park.

oldhomey

Well, Buggs, perhaps this could all be settled if we created an entire ethnic sculpture park at Riverside. We could have African-Americans represented by a wide-eyed black youngster eating watermelon, Jewish people with a hook-nosed, sneering man in a suit pick-pocketing a Norwegian American, an Asian American tableau of a small child being immersed in textbooks with a stern mother hovering over with a switch, a Mexican immigrant stabbing a Norwegian American in the back while stealing his job and ogling his comely wife. That sort of thing. Then ALL people of all ethnicities will be SO pleased that their presence in our society is being noted whil acknowledging their important place in our common histories. Gosh. I never expected you to be SO sympathetic to people of other cultures.

Cassandra2

Chippy, YOU don't get to decide whether the statue "honors" native Americans. if THEY are offended, it is not honoring them. As I said in my OP, you're not listening.

Redwall

No one has forgotten and those with constructive thoughts are looking for a positive solution. Unfortunately, the Tribune, through a series of stupidly written articles has succeeded only in creating divisiveness and ill will.

Buggs Raplin

That's what the media has been doing the last two years at the national level too. Whipping up hate and creating a toxic political environment.

Cassandra2

Chippy is clearly referring to Alex Jones and the Qanon lunatics when talking about "whipping up hate and creating a toxic political environment."

Rick Czeczok

Ah wrong again the Ho Chunk don't really care. Are you part native American, you make it sound like you are? Of course you have told a lot of lies about yourself now haven't you.
Whats your real name, so we can see just who tells the truth. Like that's going to happen. Cowards always hide behind false names, genders, and any rock they can crawl under..... Now call me a Russian spy which you know is BS but you have to say something now. Give King (queen) a big hug tonight for me. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cassandra2

Dear Russian troll Zerocock, please provide some evidence to back up your claim that the Ho Chunk don't care. Please provide quotes from some of the tribal leadership. Until you can do that, please refrain from making ridiculous claims.

Rick Czeczok

It was in the this paper Mr. idiot........

oldhomey

So, Ricky, I take it that you cannot come up with the proof. If it was in this paper, you would have by now pulled it up and reprinted it here to save your honor. You proved, however, long ago that you have no honor.

HolmenPackerFan

I wasn’t alive back when this statue was created. As ‘Ricky’ had indicated, this newspaper has reported the HoChunk (Winnebago) tribe was involved when the statue was built. They wanted it to be named Decorah. The tribe was also consulted on the paint scheme when the statue was refurbished to make it more authentic. Whether that can be interpreted to mean the HoChunk “don’t care” is certainly debatable. What’s clear is the tribe was involved and consulted from the beginning according to an article in this newspaper.

Please note, I didn’t call anyone names and have remained civil in my comment. Just the facts...

Here is an article from 2014 discussing the tribe’s involvement:

https://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/hometown-icon-hiawatha-statue/article_a0620862-2693-55ab-b50c-bef23fcd9ab7.html

oldhomey

Thank you, Holmen, for the link to the earlier Tribune article. For those who do not want to take the time to go to it, I will reprint the two relevant paragraphs. I think, perhaps, you overstate the involvement of the tribe concerning the statue. It seems to have been ignored in the first instance, and there is no way of telling if its input on the "colors" used in the repainting job were respected or not. Thin gruel, indeed. I have restrained myself from name calling, thanks to your excellent example, sir.

"A newspaper article at the time of the statue’s unveiling said local Native Americans — called Winnebagoes (now Ho-Chunk) — wanted the statue to be named Decorah after one of their great chiefs. But Zimmerhakl said he based the sculpture on Hiawatha, the 16th century chief who is credited with bringing together the Iroquois Nation.

"After much debate and public discussion, in the end $35,000 was spent to refurbish and repaint the statue, $16,935 from private funds and $18,605 from the city’s budget. Representatives of the Ho-Chunk Nation were consulted with the colors used to repaint the statue."

HolmenPackerFan

Worth noting is the fact oldhomey quoted two paragraphs from an article in this newspaper which he insisted in an earlier comment did not even exist.

Perhaps you are now understating the relevance of this article, oldhomey, in that its existence means you owe ‘Ricky’ an apology.

Repeating... Perhaps Rusty Cunningham is correct in concluding this is more about having a ‘fight’ than about the actual statue.

oldhomey

Hmm. I do not recall ever denying the existence of this or any story about the Hiawatha statue. I am getting older, so my memory ain't what it used to be. Perhaps, since this is a fairly recent discussion, you could provide me with my nefarious denial of this article, Holmen? I would be happy to plead guilty if you produce it, and apoologize profusely for it. If you can't produce it, would you mind, perhaps, apologizing for being mistaken about what you thought my past actions were? You seem to be a gentleman, so I expect either you or I will end up apologizing to one or the other very soon now.

oldhomey

Hmm, again. Having said I do not recall denying the existence of an article about the Hiawatha statue, I backed up through this string and see I challenged Ricky because he said there was such a story in this paper, and told him if he had found one, he would have produced it to prove his point. He didn't. But then Holmen came up with a link to a story that Holmen purported that proved the tribe had considerable involvement and consultation in the creation of the statue. The story he produced in fact showed no such thing. BUT it was a story about the statue, so technically, I will have to take my lumps, I guess, and say I was wrong. So, Holmen, without further ado, I spoke too hastily, and I owe you an apology. You have it.

Rick Czeczok

So now you're an American Indian too? Wow you are one incredible man, your everything to everybody. Does Kingman know how fantastic you are? Ha, of course he does; doesn't he? Queen for the day......

Cassandra2

The Russian bot, once again, attributes to me claims that I never made. How pathetic.

Buggs Raplin

The Tribune messed up here. My comments below were to another story, the column on Alex Jones

Cassandra2

Oh, of COURSE it was a failure by the Tribune. It couldn't be that YOU made an error, since you're infallible.

Buggs Raplin

No, it's possible I made an error. I thought I sent the comments to the Alex Jones topic. My apologies to the Trib's web site if that is the case.

oldhomey

It's POSSIBLE that you made an error? Every day is a litany of your errors being pointed out by other knowledgeable, honest people posting on these boards, Buggs. Yes, it is entirely possible.

Buggs Raplin

The propaganda media repeatedly calls Alex a conspiracy theorist, a term which the CIA uses to denigrate actual conspiracies, particularly the JFK assassination. Actual conspiracies are the dominant feature of world history, but the propaganda media has conditioned the American public to disregard actual conspiracies, by applying the term 'conspiracy theorist' to those presenting evidence of an actual conspiracy..as a way of ridiculing them, and dismissing the evidence. For example, the evidence is conclusive that 9/11 was an inside job, but anyone presenting that evidence is given the label, 'conspiracy theorist' and ridiculed. There's the usual 'get back on your meds' or 'you need help' statement accompanying the ridicule. I get it all the time from the usual gang of idiots on these boards. I think it's a hoot, an admission the poor sods can't challenge the evidence, so they resort to that 'astroturf' technique. It's laughable.

Buggs Raplin

One of the best examples of the propaganda media and their promulgation of illusion is the Parkland tragedy. There's video of two students, who were there. One said there were three gunmen. The other said she was actually walking with Nicolas Cruz when she heard shots being fired in the building. Also a teacher described a shooter in full military garb. According to the official timeline, Cruz would not have had time to change into it. The alternative media, including Alex Jones, reported on this. The propaganda media totally ignored the credible testimony of the two students of multiple gunmen. Such a scenario is consistent with a false flag operation to achieve a Deep State agenda goal-gun control. And that's just what happened. Parkland student David Hogg lead the charge for the Deep State. Interestingly, Hogg taped an anti-NRA video either during the slaughter, or before the slaughter. Just a prominent example of why Alex Jones is so popular, and why the propaganda media is not, and it all centers on the concept of truth.

martian2

you sir are a piece of work. you reliance on Alex Jones or any other crack pot on the web for all your info shows your are way off base. And to say all the free press, with its thousands and thousands of employees are all in a grand conspiracy to spread lies and deceit is just plain wrong. There is no way to convince you otherwise of course, you think you have it all figured out. If you think these shootings never happened, get up and go to the grave yards yourself, talk to the parents and other students yourself. Don't rely on that loathsome wind bag Jones or any one else. Find out for yourself, and see how far off base you are.

Buggs Raplin

Your blanket condemnation of Alex Jones is laughable in light of the evidence he has presented contrary to the illusions you wolf down from the propagandists in the MSM. You would have fit in well in Nazi Germany believing all the lies of Josef Goebbels,-not that much difference between Goebbels and CNN. You, martian2, are a prime example of a gullible.

oldhomey

Buggs, every time Jones is challenged on his facts with an honest-to-goodness threat of a lawsuit in which he will have to lay bare his "facts", he stumbles all over himself retracting his lies as fast as he can.

martian2

Mr. Goebbels was the alt. media for Germany 80 years ago. Don't know how you can totally dismiss all the free press has said, and on the other hand totally embrace a man who has been a proven liar time and time again. Well goes to show you, anyone can be taken in by lies and deceit if you are not careful. And as far as gullible goes, let's just say a hard core follower of Alex Jones shouldn't be using that term at all.

capedcrusader

Well, when I try to present him with information he won't read my posts. I've tried to give him proof several times on things and he will never admit to being wrong. At least he never has to me. It's hard to discuss things with someone if they've fallen too far down the rabbit hole.

Buggs Raplin

I almost always respond to your bullsh*t. Forgive me if I missed on one occasion.

Rick Czeczok

Maybe your not worth his time. After all, you are the biggest hypocrite on this board. Thank God your here in La Crosse to save us all against ourselves. I use "rabbit hole" once and you guys use it over and over. Can you clowns "gang of 6" come up with anything on your own. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, your so amusing to me. Thanks for the entertainment......

capedcrusader

Well, you are the only one who has ever called any of my posts "bullsh*t". And when you say stuff like that I begin to wonder why I continue to read any of yours... I suspect you don't respond because from time to time I catch you "stretching" the truth. I was always brought up with the adage "A half truth is a whole lie". Maybe think about that.

Rick Czeczok

Calling the kettle black.......

capedcrusader

Who is the "gang of 6" and how do we know "Rick Czeczok" is your real name? Also, where did you teach at and for how long?

Rick Czeczok

CapeCoward, you should know. Whats your real name coward. So easy to insult and name call and then crawl back under your rock. Fools like you ware a dime a dozen. I so wait for November, so all of you will move to Canada.

Cassandra2

Zerocock stole the name in an effort to gain some legitimacy as it spreads the Low IQ-anon message on the forums.

capedcrusader

Oh I didn't see that you responded "Rick". But you still didn't tell all of us how we would know that "Rick Czeczok" is your real name. You also didn't answer me about where you taught and for how long. hey "Rick", I'm not moving to Canada. I hate cold weather as it is. And just so you know, I'm hoping Canada helps us win in November. We don't want Mexico getting all the credit do we?

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